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Megathread: Cookie Cutter Songs

Started by what that mouth do, July 12, 2015, 04:35:39 PM

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what that mouth do

It's a well known fact that songs of all genres have a "formula" or "template" they must follow in order to be a hit. Sometimes a song doesn't follow it, but most of them do. What I want to list is songs that not only follow that template, but songs that have the same chord progression and melody.

For example :

"Dark Horse" vs "ET"   Both songs follow the same structure to the T.

"Tap That" vs "U + Ur Hand"   Literally the same song, different singer

"Cool for the Summer" vs "Domino"   Same exact chorus

"Feels like Tonight" vs "Please Don't Leave Me"   Same chord progression, same structure to the melodies. Chorus' are very similar

"Oops I did it Again" vs "Baby One More Time"  (worst offender)  Obviously same song. Cash grab. Copy and pasted everything

"Tik Tok" vs "California Girls"    Same song, different singer.

"Problem" vs "Nobody Love"   Same Pre-Chorus build up, same "whisper" chorus at the same time. Same song different singer.

"I'll Never Stop" vs "Thats the Way It Is"      In the song the melody goes "THATS! the way it is", which is identical to "DON'T you understand"

"Light up the World" vs "I Wanna Go"     Same chorus

"Gotta Be You" vs "Everybody (Backstreets Back)"   Same bass line



I love Max but I just hate it when songs are copy and pasted. Post some more songs like this

j.fco.morales

If it works, you stick to it and try to improve.

what that mouth do

Quote from: j.fco.morales on July 12, 2015, 06:20:51 PM
If it works, you stick to it and try to improve.

Right, but they're not improving it.

AlexanderLaBrea

You clearly do not understand pop music sir.

Jules


Rebecca

Quote from: Jules on July 12, 2015, 10:49:21 PM
I love CHEIRON copy&paste  8)

Me too!

To me, it's not a criticism, it's just the songwriters style, repeating what sounds good. I don't need Max to completely change every time, or even improve - those songs are excellent. It's also true for other songwriters eg Diane Warren, Desmond Child songs etc a lot of their songs sound similar too, you could go on and on.

B Steady

the first post is frustrating me so much ... I better go to sleep first before I reply to this :D
Vila i frid Dag

B Steady

Quote from: what that mouth do on July 12, 2015, 04:35:39 PM
"Dark Horse" vs "ET"   Both songs follow the same structure to the T.
what does that mean?
"Cool for the Summer" vs "Domino"   Same exact chorus
are you deaf?
"Oops I did it Again" vs "Baby One More Time"  (worst offender)  Obviously same song. Cash grab. Copy and pasted everything
are you deaf?
"Tik Tok" vs "California Girls"    Same song, different singer.
are you deaf?
"I'll Never Stop" vs "Thats the Way It Is"      In the song the melody goes "THATS! the way it is", which is identical to "DON'T you understand"
so wrong, SO WRONG. neither the melody nor the rhythm is identically. besides that That's The Way It Is is basically I Want It That Way (noticed that even before I realized that it's written and produced by the same guys) and I'll Never Stop is basically a mix of The One and Can't Make You Love Me.
"Gotta Be You" vs "Everybody (Backstreets Back)"   Same bass line
are you completely deaf?

boy, obviously you don't know too much about music. sit down, learn your theory and then play the songs on a piano and you hopefully will notice how wrong you are.
besides that the writers and producers obviously have (and also need to a certain extent) their trademark sounds and formulas for business purposes.
it seems you're neither a good musician nor a good business man.
Vila i frid Dag

sweetmelody

There's always free improv Jazz, ya know?  ;D

Pop music is what it is, always was and always will be. Max is a God amongst men when it comes to this. A true master. If it was so easy to follow a formula, absolutely everybody would write smash #1s. There's a reason why the list at the top is Max along with those Beatle guys. ;)

ShockdioN

Quote from: B Steady on July 13, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
boy, obviously you don't know too much about music. sit down, learn your theory and then play the songs on a piano and you hopefully will notice how wrong you are.
besides that the writers and producers obviously have (and also need to a certain extent) their trademark sounds and formulas for business purposes.
it seems you're neither a good musician nor a good business man.


deeaaad

B Steady

#10
btw, here's a rhythm comparison of the It's Gotta Be You (guess, that's the song you meant) and the Everybody (Backstreet's Back) bassline:

every number stands for an eighth note. 1 = note, 2 = pause
1211111212111222
1211121211212222

melody-wise they obviously differ too or can you hear a chromatic part in the IGBY bassline?

@shockdion: are you a cat or how can you die so many times?
Vila i frid Dag

what that mouth do

Quote from: B Steady on July 13, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
boy, obviously you don't know too much about music. sit down, learn your theory and then play the songs on a piano and you hopefully will notice how wrong you are.
besides that the writers and producers obviously have (and also need to a certain extent) their trademark sounds and formulas for business purposes.
it seems you're neither a good musician nor a good business man.

Quote from: B Steady on July 13, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
boy, obviously you don't know too much about music. sit down, learn your theory and then play the songs on a piano and you hopefully will notice how wrong you are.
besides that the writers and producers obviously have (and also need to a certain extent) their trademark sounds and formulas for business purposes.
it seems you're neither a good musician nor a good business man.

This the sorriest attempt at a response I've ever read. You just called me deaf on legitimate claims of copy and pasting. I'll explain the easy ones:


"Oops I did it Again" vs "Baby One More Time" . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQXhzycu9no

"California Girls" vs "Tik Tok" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2dPA2dCRNY

"Cool for the Summer" vs "Domino" - Is there really a debate here? The chorus' are exactly the same


B Steady

#12
Quote from: what that mouth do on July 15, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
I'll explain the easy ones

Explain? By sending me links? Funny these videos even proof you wrong (and also their uploaders lol)! I'm sorry I haven't found a youtube video that says: "Next time just say: yes, I'm deaf."
Ok no, that might be a bit harsh. But you're "musically deaf" if you don't hear the differences. That's all these songs are about, the slight differences. And it's so interesting to notice them - at least when you're able to do so!
Maybe you're just pretty carefree with the use of your words after all (just as I was with "deaf", sorry for this.)
I hope there are enough users in this forum who can spot the differences between your examples and I hope even more that we can meet one time so that I can explain it to you in case you haven't learned it until we meet. Just bring some time with you, that's all I'm asking for. I'll arrange keyboard, speakers, drinks and whatnot!

Have a nice rest of the week! :)

PS: I hope at least that you found my second reply to you helpful/constructive.
And no, these choruses are NOT exactly the same.
Vila i frid Dag

AlexanderLaBrea

Quote from: what that mouth do on July 15, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
This the sorriest attempt at a response I've ever read. You just called me deaf on legitimate claims of copy and pasting. I'll explain the easy ones:


"Oops I did it Again" vs "Baby One More Time" . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQXhzycu9no

"California Girls" vs "Tik Tok" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2dPA2dCRNY

"Cool for the Summer" vs "Domino" - Is there really a debate here? The chorus' are exactly the same



And that was a pretty sorry attempt at proving you're right. What you don't seem understand is the concept of having a sound. Producers and songwriters (smart ones) have a sound. Cheiron had their signature sound, which played a huge part in their success. With your logic, you probably hate 99% of them as successful bands tend to have a signature sound.

As fas as your proof goes: Have you listened (I mean, really listened) to those mashups? Do the melodies sync up in any significant way? NO! And that's what matters. It's a standard "lack of music knowledge" criticism to say that "everything sounds alike". If you're lucky to come up with a successful concept like Max has with his songwriting, you don't throw that away and start making 74-chord complex fusion jazz songs. If songs have 4 chords and basic intro, verse, pre, chorus structure it is not copy and paste. It's what works! Then you create something unexpected for every song. Do you hear trap music influences in ET? No, revolutionary when it came out. You're refering to the "Rock my world into the sunlight" part of Domino which is the only thing that is even remotely comparable to CFTS. But the hook in CFTS is the "cuz I'm your body tyyyype" part, which is super weird and genious writing. And I could continue forever debunking your arguments.

I don't know why I even bother. Trying to explain songwriting to people who doesn't understand it is a dead end. But this is what makes Max the best in the world at what he does. He constantly writes songs that are recognizable enough,but still with that little "extra something" that makes it stand out from the rest and stick to your brain. Small melody hooks, production things etc.

georg_e

                  ^  ^  ^
   Very true re that "swoop" on 'body tyyyppe' in CFTS: absolutely the key hook.
Also re choruses of CFTS and "Domino" to the original poster:

Melodic RYTHYM and melody are not the same thing. Yes, the rythyms use the same strong 'thing' on both, but the notes are completely different. So you can't just say they're the 'same chorus'.