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How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?

Author Topic: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?  (Read 24080 times)

Offline AdamKhan

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 05:15:42 AM »
Priceless information here!!!!! Thanks to all who have contributed....really appreciate y'all.

Offline wiik

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »
I believe that, in general, if you manage to create something really repetitive that still somehow does not feel boring then it's probably going to work. For pop music that is so much better than creating a complex melody that, while it may be beautiful, is not as easy to remember.

So I try to keep my mindset on SIMPLE, sometimes repeating a short melody or just the same note over and over again. The tricky part is keeping it from boring the listener. This can be done by changing it up in places, or create a melody that, when repeated over a chord sequence clashes in a "good" way on some chords. Which clashes are "good" and which are "bad" is somewhat subjective but I have mental notes of these that I try to apply.

So, having the right amount of "good" clashes while keeping it really repetitive is usually the key, I think.

I can give some examples if someone is still reading this thread  :o

Offline georg_e

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 05:49:12 PM »
                                                      ^    ^    ^
  Yes, some examples please :-)     I know what you mean about them "good clashes",  love those.   I figured it out once, but there's one in either the verse or chorus (forgot which) of "Scream'' (Usher) on one of the "Ooops baby, baby" lines, and to go back to a golden oldie, there's one on end of the verses of "4Ever" (Veronicas) where the line is "but I don't even care", "I just don't even care" etc.   Things like that which are just a little 'off' in a good way.......
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 05:51:36 PM by georg_e »

Offline wiik

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2012, 06:23:06 PM »
Just a quick explanation about note clashes: What I mean by a clash (sometimes referred to as a "coloration") is notes that does not belong to the chord being played (= is not one of the three notes of the chord). Some notes clash "well" and some clash "ugly" due to a bunch of theoretical reasons. Notes that clash well can often be an important part of the melody and notes that clash "ugly" are often just short transitions to another note (or, the chord underneath changes, changing or removing (more common) the clash after a short while).

I had a listen to the Usher song and that is a very good example actually.

In the chorus when this part comes, the two notes that make up "oh baby baby" goes over two chords and the melody is the same 2 notes repeating. Here, only the first note "ohh" of the first chord is NOT a clash. The 2nd note "baby" on the first chord is a "9th" (or 2nd if you like) and is usually a nice clash although 4ths (sus4) are more common on that specific chord. The second chord however, has two very good clashes, the 7th (ohh) and the 4th (baby) which work exeptionally well for this chord.

So, while the melody is very simple and sing-along-able, the clashes makes it interesting and memorable.

An example with one of my own songs (wrote this one with a whole bunch of dudes, lol): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psL13MeJg1U

I received the idea for the chorus from my cowriters which, at this time, had the repeating "mind" on the same note over and over with no clashes. I made the small change of clashing the last "mind" (making a 6th) and also wrote the "on and on" part with a little more melody to counter the repetitiveness and narrow range of the first part.

I'm not saying this song is perfect in any way, but its one example how you can work with clashes to avoid "boring" repetition.

Note that with all this theory, there is still a very good reason why the first idea that pops into a songwriter's head when listening to a track usually has value, one way or another. I use all these tricks all the time but in the end, if it sounds good go with it  8)

Offline georg_e

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2012, 06:51:21 PM »

          Thanks wiik, understand what you mean, and your song is great, man!!   Very satisfying and catchy.  I love the repetition of "mind mind" and the bass line of the chorus......that last bass note of fourth bar of chorus is unexpected and feels good (the substitution of vi minor).......but that's a whole 'nother topic :D

Offline Neal

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 03:30:20 AM »
" Everything I'm saying is not meant to bash anybody or similiar. Simply talking from a professional point of view.

I listened 15 secs to your first two tracks and have too say we're talking completely different levels here. I switched after 15 secs because the melody didn't grab my attention and the sound wasn't that catchy.

The reason why someone is not in the music game is simply this one....:
...because you didn't put out some freaking awesome and super catchy music. Do you really think if someone releases super stunning tracks which get airplay and are shared with todays technology and social media possibilities will not be successful if he tries to get in there?

I've seen any part of the music industry and can say that if you have a hit then no one can mess with it. It's that simple.


I agree with you that people spent more time on mixing in the 90s then now but the point that they are trapped in that situation i is simply unlogical. For example Max worked on albums sold over 300 millions times. Add it up and you see, he wouldn't have to do a thing for hundreds of years. "


- 15 secs , that's funny , why don't you actually listen to one whole song next time , there's usually more to hear that way ;).
- Umm. I think your opinions about the music biz are really clouded , is it really about the music or who you know ?? You tell me. I don't need to answer cos it is really quite obvious when  you look into it. Perhaps do a little research for yourself then get back to me.
- Well my point exactly , because Max has established a name for himself he really doesn't have to prove anything anymore. Is this necessarily a good thing when it comes to pushing the bar for music ?? Not so convinced myself.
- Yes I used one production perspective for those songs so I could stylise it as an album , it was deliberately meant to sound as one style if you see what I mean. But just to prove my versality I recently worked on a simple ballad with Kyle Jupiter - Someday You Will  https://soundcloud.com/wavescapestudios/kyle-jupiter-someday-you-will

And what about this for originality: https://soundcloud.com/wavescapestudios/laguna-beach-cop-preview

Sorry but when was the last time the good folks at Cheiron took a sample like that and sent it into space haha :) !

Best,

Neal





 

Offline Neal

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 04:45:26 AM »
" An example with one of my own songs (wrote this one with a whole bunch of dudes, lol): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psL13MeJg1U "

Cool track !

- Here are my 2 cents. I would simplify it some more , the bridge could for example be like a pre-chorus up to the chorus and maybe do something else for the actual bridge.
- Some strong strings to take the chorus up and you could add a low harmony to thicken the lead vocal in the chorus as well.

- The mix could be cleaner !!

- Vocal sounds a little dry , there's too much ensemble , cut it slightly so the vocal is more natural. Put some more high EQ on the pads and cut the low EQ a little on it so not so thick.
- The adlibs are too much and sound crowded , limit them to perhaps the best ones.
- To change it up you could do a lyrical play such as " Never gonna let me go , if i'm Never gonna let you go "

- Bass drum is a bit too compressed and you could use a sharper snare.

Just some technical pointers from my point of view. Hope they are useful but this is relative not factual so please don't take it like so.

Best,

Neal


 

Offline Voodoo

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2013, 10:46:16 PM »
" An example with one of my own songs (wrote this one with a whole bunch of dudes, lol): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psL13MeJg1U "

Cool track !

- Here are my 2 cents. I would simplify it some more ....

Hmmm... this is getting a bit weird now. I don't know if Wilk is looking for pointers... as the song already appears to have been cut (and is really hooky by the way).

Offline georg_e

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2013, 01:38:55 AM »

                          ^     ^     ^

                          My thought exactly!! :D :D

Offline jv2612

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2013, 04:40:47 AM »
" Everything I'm saying is not meant to bash anybody or similiar. Simply talking from a professional point of view.

I listened 15 secs to your first two tracks and have too say we're talking completely different levels here. I switched after 15 secs because the melody didn't grab my attention and the sound wasn't that catchy.

The reason why someone is not in the music game is simply this one....:
...because you didn't put out some freaking awesome and super catchy music. Do you really think if someone releases super stunning tracks which get airplay and are shared with todays technology and social media possibilities will not be successful if he tries to get in there?

I've seen any part of the music industry and can say that if you have a hit then no one can mess with it. It's that simple.


I agree with you that people spent more time on mixing in the 90s then now but the point that they are trapped in that situation i is simply unlogical. For example Max worked on albums sold over 300 millions times. Add it up and you see, he wouldn't have to do a thing for hundreds of years. "


- 15 secs , that's funny , why don't you actually listen to one whole song next time , there's usually more to hear that way ;).
- Umm. I think your opinions about the music biz are really clouded , is it really about the music or who you know ?? You tell me. I don't need to answer cos it is really quite obvious when  you look into it. Perhaps do a little research for yourself then get back to me.
- Well my point exactly , because Max has established a name for himself he really doesn't have to prove anything anymore. Is this necessarily a good thing when it comes to pushing the bar for music ?? Not so convinced myself.
- Yes I used one production perspective for those songs so I could stylise it as an album , it was deliberately meant to sound as one style if you see what I mean. But just to prove my versality I recently worked on a simple ballad with Kyle Jupiter - Someday You Will  https://soundcloud.com/wavescapestudios/kyle-jupiter-someday-you-will

And what about this for originality: https://soundcloud.com/wavescapestudios/laguna-beach-cop-preview

Sorry but when was the last time the good folks at Cheiron took a sample like that and sent it into space haha :) !

Best,

Neal


A great song have to catch the attention in the first seconds, after the chorus I believe thats the most important part, if your song starts in a bad way, people are just going to skip it.

Offline Neal

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 12:43:16 AM »
"Hmmm... this is getting a bit weird now. I don't know if Wilk is looking for pointers... as the song already appears to have been cut (and is really hooky by the way)."

How do you know what Wilk (btw is that short for Wilkins or Wilkingson ?? ) is looking for ? Why don't you let him decide that. Funny how he hasn't responded yet , Hmmm ...

 

Offline Neal

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 12:49:02 AM »
" A great song have to catch the attention in the first seconds, after the chorus I believe thats the most important part, if your song starts in a bad way, people are just going to skip it. "

No it doesn't. I'm sorry I didn't get a copy of " The Music Rulebook " with my years of producing :) !! There's been countless great songs with " boring or bad or whatever you wanna call it " intros. Ever heard a song called Drowning by BSB , I remember the first time hearing it I was drifting off with the fishes until it actually went into the chorus.

Offline Axel

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 09:17:56 AM »
put yourself in the position of an A&R person or a song publisher. You get pitches of 50 songs and you listen to one by one.. if you don't get hooked within the first 20 secs, you'll start forwarding or you'll skip the song entirely. That's just how it works in the industry. Or let's say your chances of someone listening to your WHOLE song increases dramatically if you get people hooked within the first few seconds.

Offline Joshua

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 01:53:08 PM »
I think I'm gonna stay out of this one.

Offline Voodoo

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Re: How Do Max And Shellback Create Memorable Melodies?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 10:14:35 PM »
No it doesn't. I'm sorry I didn't get a copy of " The Music Rulebook " with my years of producing :) !! There's been countless great songs with " boring or bad or whatever you wanna call it " intros. Ever heard a song called Drowning by BSB , I remember the first time hearing it I was drifting off with the fishes until it actually went into the chorus.

its getting weirder in here!!!!!!! haha!