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Coincidence / intention ?

Author Topic: Coincidence / intention ?  (Read 7830 times)

Offline B Steady

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Coincidence / intention ?
« on: July 31, 2013, 02:08:01 PM »
"I Want It That Way" Mid8 = "That's The Way It Is" Verse

"The One That Got Away" Mid8 = "Part Of Me" Mid8

"Till The World Ends" Verse beginning = "Part Of Me" Verse beginning

If you know more, post 'em! ;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 12:21:39 PM by B Steady »
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Offline max_martin_fan

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 06:09:11 AM »
That was spot-on!

Teenage dream chorus = Your body chorus (the first bars)
teenage dream verse = gimme gimme gimme chorus (abba)
mamma mia verse = oops i did it again chorus (this one is tricky, its just the metric and the melodic motion)
what the hell verse (first bars) = e.t. verse (first bars too)


there is a lot of stuff like that on max stuff, if i have time later will post more

Offline Rebecca

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 12:07:51 PM »
this is very interesting!

yes, please keep posting

Offline Joshua

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 10:50:25 AM »
This is cool! They obviously have certain melodies on the brain, and they end up on multiple songs they've written around the same time. max_martin_fan, I think the ABBA similarity might be pure coincidence on "Oops", because that chorus was based off Barbra Steisands "Woman In Love", though for all we know that might have been inspired by "Mamma Mia" to begin with.

Offline Voodoo

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2013, 09:15:07 AM »
*Your Body = California Girls = Abracadraba (jessie J)

Offline max_martin_fan

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »
This is cool! They obviously have certain melodies on the brain, and they end up on multiple songs they've written around the same time. max_martin_fan, I think the ABBA similarity might be pure coincidence on "Oops", because that chorus was based off Barbra Steisands "Woman In Love", though for all we know that might have been inspired by "Mamma Mia" to begin with.

yup, youre right on that one.

*Your Body = California Girls = Abracadraba (jessie J)

incredible, never heard that song before. if the verse and the pre weren't so weak it could be a great song btw

Offline soundoffhear

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 03:39:12 AM »
Dr. Luke's mentor was/is Max Martin. Luke, in an interview, gave the advice to dissect great songs you admire in order to boil down and find the common denominators of intervals in those melodies. It is no small wonder Max's body of work represents tried and true common intervals from his other hit songs.

Likewise with effective harmonies on his final choruses in songs; he studied the common intervals in ABBA's harmonies and made them his own goto grab bag. Just like the Beatles studied the close, almost dissonant, harmonies of the Everly Brothers and found their own variation for their early hits.

Offline georg_e

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 07:13:04 AM »
Dr. Luke's mentor was/is Max Martin. Luke, in an interview, gave the advice to dissect great songs you admire in order to boil down and find the common denominators of intervals in those melodies. It is no small wonder Max's body of work represents tried and true common intervals from his other hit songs.

Likewise with effective harmonies on his final choruses in songs; he studied the common intervals in ABBA's harmonies and made them his own goto grab bag. Just like the Beatles studied the close, almost dissonant, harmonies of the Everly Brothers and found their own variation for their early hits.
    Really good points, soundoffhear.... Do you remember where you saw that interview talking about intervals? I saw one where Luke talked about finding common chord progressions that work, but not intervals.  I figured out on my own --just from listening-- back @2006 that they were using certain intervals, but I never actually heard them (or Luke) talk about that at all, so it would interest me to read that :-)

Offline Joshua

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 01:12:06 PM »
Dr. Luke's mentor was/is Max Martin. Luke, in an interview, gave the advice to dissect great songs you admire in order to boil down and find the common denominators of intervals in those melodies.

Yes, I agree this is a great point... and I think it's something I've probably done subconsciously over the years. As in, I've gone around in circles until I've managed to find a Max-like moment in my own songs, rather than knowing specifically and technically what I'm looking for.

Offline royeei

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2013, 12:54:34 PM »
Quote
I figured out on my own --just from listening-- back @2006 that they were using certain intervals,

Hi George,
 can you give us a little example of what you found out about the intervals?

Offline Joshua

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 04:20:45 PM »
First lines of the chorus in "since you been gooooone" & "I just want you to knooooow", just so happen to be written around the same time!

Offline soundoffhear

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 09:11:03 PM »
Do you remember where you saw that interview talking about intervals? I saw one where Luke talked about finding common chord progressions that work, but not intervals.

Where is the interview with him talking about chord progressions?

I don't remember where or what he said exactly. I digest so many bits of interviews over the years. I think in one interview he said something in passing, such as "study songs you love, and you will see patterns that repeat themselves in those songs" Then I heard Stargate talking about taking apart melodies from the great songs of the 20th century and finding common intervals that tend to be used over and over.

I think I inferred what Dr. Luke meant. So many of the songwriting interviews done are devoid of technical description from the songwriters. You do have to infer what they technically do as a process.

Offline georg_e

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 11:32:40 PM »
Where is the interview with him talking about chord progressions?

I don't remember where or what he said exactly. I digest so many bits of interviews over the years. I think in one interview he said something in passing, such as "study songs you love, and you will see patterns that repeat themselves in those songs" Then I heard Stargate talking about taking apart melodies from the great songs of the 20th century and finding common intervals that tend to be used over and over.

I think I inferred what Dr. Luke meant. So many of the songwriting interviews done are devoid of technical description from the songwriters. You do have to infer what they technically do as a process.
   That interview with Dr. Luke you're asking about was in "American Songwriter" about 3 years ago -- it's easy to find online still.  I have a feeling that might be the one you read,  because he was talking about studying chord progressions in the same way you mentioned.
That's great what Stargate said, because alot of those intervals do go way back, used in hit songs of the 30's and 40's, but of course in a very different style of rythym, etc. :-)   

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 06:50:14 PM »
   That interview with Dr. Luke you're asking about was in "American Songwriter" about 3 years ago -- it's easy to find online still.  I have a feeling that might be the one you read,  because he was talking about studying chord progressions in the same way you mentioned.
That's great what Stargate said, because alot of those intervals do go way back, used in hit songs of the 30's and 40's, but of course in a very different style of rythym, etc. :-)

http://www.americansongwriter.com/2011/02/dr-luke/

Do you have some advice for aspiring songwriters?

For people that are making music, there are certain classic progressions. Find those standard chord progressions that a thousand songs have been written with and try to find great melodies to go over that. If you can name six hit songs that were written on those three chords then you know there’s a hit song to be written there.

Then there is no excuse. You have to write something stellar then. For lyricists, same thing. Find people you really love and listen to them and learn from them. I did a lot of analytical listening when I was first started. I’m still always listening to things and checking them out. I’m surrounded by people who are really excited about what they are doing. I get to learn and teach and all that stuff. It’s great.

Offline wattm

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Re: Vocal melody similarities in Max Martin songs
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 03:10:38 PM »
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