You guys are too much into this Cheiron hype

[Dagge]

I really appreciate Cheiron ex writters staff and their talent, but I think you (and many others) are giving them more credit than they actually deserve. Re. music quality, how was it possible that after their mentor (and only really great and honest person in that team) Denniz Pop passed they continued to churn out hits. Is it some kind of manufacture or an art of music making. How can you find inspiration for an art after your role model dies. I say you can't, and you need not, because it is a manufacture and not an art. It is manufactured pop with strict rules to follow, 'inspired' by tweaked melodies from other (real) artists, same old couple of chords that always go well etc. What's so great about it? They always said it is a fun and that's because they are into it. I really doubt it was a fun after Denniz PoP depart. It was and it is strict and well crafted business, nothing more.

You want approval? Denniz as only enthusiast in that team learned Max rules, Max learned Shellback and Dr Luke rules, now Max and Shellback learned new guys rules. And guess what, all of them are miracously churning hit after hit. Shellback went from heavy unmelodic metal into melodic pop in months. Is it possible without getting to know a set of well crafted rules? No. It is a well crafted manufacture and not an art. There is really nothing special in it. What's special in the fact that they approached this business in a corporate and not an artistic way. And now that they have all contacts in the world they can do whatever they want, because of the sad state of music industry and media. Everything sounds the same and radio stations have no control of programming anymore. Now whole Sweden is hooked on, trying to churn worldwide hits, and they all sound same because they all use same old rules. Sad

I mean, what is artistic and special in using same 4 chords (because 'people like them'), change prosody rhythm in verses and chorus because of contrast, use same old song structure, recycle melody in verse and chorus so that listener easy remember it, nick one part of some silly melody from 80's and repeat it by following same set of rules (chorus line 1 and 2 symmetrical, line 1 and 3 symmetrical, 3x symmetrical and 4 different, finish chorus singing on the base note, put some big interval note as an surprise to make tension, put some hooks and repeat them every 7 second, make verse sound silly so that chorus sounds more great, put distinctive sound at song beginning so that listeners know in advance what song it is etc). I really cannot grasp how they manage to earn millions by following so silly rules that occupy one single sentence. And I cannot understand how do you appreciate that so much. I could also teach almost anyone all those rules. Only difference would be that their chorus melody wouldn't be so strong, but this is a matter of time invested in melody tweaking anyway.

I personally could churn a hit or two of same quality in a day (without investing additional time into production). You can do it on your own too. Use next set of chords: C, F, G, Am, Em, sometimes D and combine them (use chord wheel if you are not skilled). If there are more chords in a chorus set melody simpler and repeat it more, and vice versa. Put some 'surprise' chord to add tension. Then nick some great chorus from eighties (there are plenty of them), dissect it, take one bar melody and use above melody rules for repeating (you can 'borrow' up to 6 consecutive notes without consequences). You will have a hit, not worse than majority on Billboard Top 10. What's left is a good connection in the industry. Or you may tell them you are from Sweden, then they will listen thinking that you know what you are doing.

You may see by my nickname that I am a Dag Volle fan, but for others, I don't know. And all this started with Ace of Base success in USA, not Cheiron. Cheiron had co-written only 3 songs on that album. US public liked kinda fresh sound of euro-reggae rhythm on that album. And that credit goes to Ace of Base and not to Cheiron guys. Cheiron songs at that time were quite silly, listen to Papa Dee and LeilaK. God knows what would happen to their success if it weren't Steve Lund from Zomba that gave them opportunity of a century with BSB. You can hardly blow up such opportunity because public was ready for BSB style bands. They would buy it even if those songs were worse than they were (and they were well crafted songs).

I wish you a nice day

[B Steady]

I wish you a nice day

I wish the same to you

[georg_e]

Please, when you have a chance, let us hear one of those hits you could churn out in a day!

[NeutronSynergy]

Too long.

[Wolf Cousin]

Although you make some good points, I think you are overlooking one thing:

He's not in the business of art making. He's in the business of hit making. And at that he and his team are the best at what they do.

And a nice day to you too sir!
Wolf Cousin

[Dagge]

@Wolf you are right, but it confirms my point. If they are involved in MAKING, thus it is some form of craft like in any other business. That means that anyone that learns those rules can make it. And that leads to the conclusion if anyone can make it, why admire it so much.

I will prove my point by posting a couple of potentially hit choruses which I will 'build' by listening to some real music. Give me a day or two because I am busy. And I will honestly say how much time did I use (usually 1hr per song), name of the song that 'inspired' me etc. And I don't find myself too talented for this. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

[B Steady]

Although you make some good points, I think you are overlooking one thing:

He's not in the business of art making. He's in the business of hit making. And at that he and his team are the best at what they do.

And a nice day to you too sir!
Wolf Cousin

Another point, that you, Dagge, are overlooking:
Some people just LOVE this kind of music although they are aware of all the calculations

[Rebecca]

This annoys me so much! that people can think a great pop song is sooo easy to write and anyone can do it.
There are lots of songs that sound like Cheiron and they are okay, but they don't have the feel to them.

I understand if someone doesn't like Cheiron music, music is personal, that's fine.

I love Denniz Pop too.

For me, the Cheiron songs have something special to them, something I can't explain, some sort of feeling to them. Other people might think they're silly pop songs, but to me, they're unique.

[Rebecca]

Please, when you have a chance, let us hear one of those hits you could churn out in a day!

I'm also looking forward these hits.

[B Steady]

For me, the Cheiron songs have something special to them, something I can't explain, some sort of feeling to them. Other people might think they're silly pop songs, but to me, they're unique.

... and that's the way it is!

[Dagge]

...
For me, the Cheiron songs have something special to them, something I can't explain, some sort of feeling to them. Other people might think they're silly pop songs, but to me, they're unique.

OK let's translate this. Guys connected to Cheiron during last 20years, learned tricks and all make songs 'that have something special to them'. I wonder how all those different guys that learned stuff in different timeslots since 1995, how all they make songs that have something special. Isn't it abit silly to believe this?

To me it looks like they all learned same tricks, what was exactly my point in first post. It means that almost anyone can learn those tricks and make 'hits' (at least what labels and radio think are hits).

[Dr. Fleischman]

I personally could churn a hit or two of same quality in a day (without investing additional time into production).

Don't waste your time and energy on this thread. Either the guy has some issues or he's just making fun of the people on this forum, probably the first option.

[Voodoo]

Too long.

LOL. I second that

[Dagge]

As promised here I post several basic choruses that I made under 2 hr time. Basic channels only, Pro Tools free software, all played in same key because of easier comparison. Melodies 'inspired' by 'Shellback - hits from 2008 - 2016' youtube video. Inspired but not stolen (exactly like those guys do). Melodies not tweaked because I had no time. Compare those melodies with mine, only difference is their are slightly more tweaked to sound strong. OK, Shellback last year earned 4 mil. Here are 7 rough material 'hits'..now, where is my million 

https://soundcloud.com/dagge1/rhythmic-pop-1/s-T02kn
https://soundcloud.com/dagge1/rhythmic-pop-2
https://soundcloud.com/dagge1/rhythmic-pop-03
https://soundcloud.com/dagge1/rhythmic-pop-04

[AlexanderLaBrea]

So, the amount of hubris here must exceed legal limits by far. Alright, so let's just quickly make this clear. I'm not saying these "ideas" are very bad, but you have clearly not understood a single thing about how Max and his disciples (also Rami etc. to some extent) write. There is zero hit factor in any of the snippets you just posted and really the simple answer to the statement that Shellback has made a lot of money: He is a very good songwriter! You are not, yet.

It's impossible to explain things to people who don't wanna understand, so I'm gonna try to avoid elaborating on why most of your statements in this thread are wrong. But basically, writing simple yet infectious melodies is incredible hard and you're definitely not the first (I include the 17 y/o me here...) to think that "everyone can do that". What makes me happy though is that you sir must be the first one I've come across who actually tried to "put up a shut up" and to no surprise failed miserably. Thank you for proving a previously hard to prove point!