Cheiron Songwriters and Max Martin fan-forum and music discussion board www.swedishsongs.de - All about Swedish songwriters and music

Other music and off-topic => Studios, Sounds, Vocals and Tech-Talk => Topic started by: maxmartin'sfan on February 18, 2007, 10:34:37 AM

Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 18, 2007, 10:34:37 AM
hi Everybody!!!
I dont' know if there are songwriter  and producer here..
Because I Need an Advice ...

I'm Trying to make the Cheiron Sound .. I'm Working on This For The moment... But It's hard to find the good sound... I 'm goind to find.. But if Someone can help me.. lol^^
I Need everybody even if you are not songwriter... ^^

Thanks!!!!

Nico
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 12:39:03 PM
Oh this is interesting. Do you have a studio?

Are you playing instruments?

I guess the first step would be to analyse the basic structure of the most famous songs and the chord sequences to get into the feeling.

Play around with an alternation and you come up with a melody.

Focus and the chorus and KISS! (Keep it Simple Style)

Would be lovely to hear some of your efforts!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 18, 2007, 12:50:20 PM
you will have to specify a little further............... Most of the cheiron stuff follows a blueprint.......
Gotta go for sunday dinner i will get back to this later..,..
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 18, 2007, 02:21:47 PM
Hey...

http://www.myspace.com/popsoul

Here's my Myspace Music...

^^
I 'm just  looking for to make a song with the cheiron sound...
For example in this song of Partsix "what's that sound"...
in the beginning of the song .. when the boys sing the chorus..
The 3 chords use on the rythm have a particular sound...

http://www.myspace.com/partsixgirlz

thanks for your help! lol ^^
I Apologize for my english!!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 03:10:16 PM
Interesting I am listening to your songs right now. With which program do you make them?

According the specific Cheiron sound I think it's pretty hard to describe it. But I think they use "hits" (like orchestra hits). Short accentuated sounds. It's difficult to explain, lots of syntheziser gimmicks, I hardly hear any real instruments.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 18, 2007, 03:49:23 PM
There's no real instruments... or just the guitar.....
...
Yes they use "hits" .. I Used a short violin hits.. but now I 'm going  to looking for a good sound for my synthetizer! ^^

Thanks to help me!

For My Music I use a lot of differents program.. The Main Program is Cubase... I need to work very hard again..


Thanks
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 18, 2007, 03:51:48 PM
Hits is spot on. I'm 99%sure that they make there own 'hits'. there are alot of different elements with in them. There is percussion, like you say an orchestral punch element, a brass effect. the 'hits' thet use for bsb differ to the ones they use for britney, which differ again from the ones the use for westlife etc etc. If you listen to the reworked version of when you're looking like that, that is just crammed full of those little 'hits'. I think the dynamics in that bit of music are amazing. I don't think it is the best 'cheiron' song by a long way, but it is deffinately what i consider to be one of the top 5 bits of pop music the world has ever heard. Over protected is another good example of the use of a large ammount of dynamics.
The dynamics obviously give the songs a lot of punchy little feels in to them, but thet also mark when another element of music comes in or goes out of the track.
The 'sound', as turnaround says can't be described. But the blueprint can be worked out.
to me one of the clearest point to me that a song was 'cheiron' was always ythe rythmn. The high-hat closing right before every fourth snare beat, that was always the initial give away.
When i get time, that will be the very start point of my attempt to make my own cheiron styled stuff.
A couple of years a go i spent a couple of weeks listening to various cheiron tracks and analysed the structure.
I'm not saying that i have it figured out totally. And no human ears would ever beable to disect cheiron (or most modern pop) fully. But the songs i analysed and tried to break down all followed the same format. I made notes on various things. Ie, there is always an introductory lyric which expands into the fisrt verse, then chorus 1, verse2, chorus2, then that always leads into the middle eight. straight after middle eight you hava the key change and verse three then the chorus is repeated 2 or 3 times. Nearly all of the cheiron stuff was like that. I also had notes on where instrument came in and out, i lost them and from memory it was quite complexed so i cant really recall much of it (i'm gutted about losing them !!).
But within the tracks there is always at least 2 live guitars and also usually the bass too. For me this element of live musicianship gives it so so much. Makes it human, and adds stuff that no synth or keyboard could ever do.
If you have 5.1 home cinema try listening to your favourite cheiron songs on that and unplug the main speakers just so you hear the satelitte small speakers. the latter cheiron stuff seems to all be mastered into 5:1, and the 'hits', dynamics and effects that come out of those speakers are absolutely mind blowing. I've listened to drowning like that a hundred times and each time my ear picks up something it hadn't heard before.
I know i have rambled on here, but in short, to your original question.
I think if you are looking for the cheiron sound you will have to go that far into it.
If you make your own music i'm sure you can find soft synths without too much hassle. after that its upto you to put them together the right way.
i guess its kinda like building a car. you can get the parts easily enough, you just gotta work out how they all go together.
Since i was a child personally i have always found that the best way to find out how something goes together is by first taking it apart.
I think any of us trying to emulate the 'cherion' sound will ultimately be disapointed, but whatever your musical ability, i think it will be a really enjoyable and interesting challenge.
anyone care to add anything to any of the above?!?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 04:17:02 PM
Wow this was an absolutely interesting read. Thanks for sharing. As I also wrote songs for a while I often tried to analyse the songs and the structure, arrangements etc, and the Swedish songs have so often this special formula that always worked so well and we love.

I have experienced that the songs where you always hear some new things out, like Malcolm said, and you even after the 100th listen still discover a new detail, are the songs you never get tired.

What is an essential part of a Cheiron song is that the chorus after the Middle 8 is often "inverted". So the lyrics are just in a different order and the melody slightly differs from the original. Like in "Oops..." or in "Stronger".

Characteristic for Cheiron is also the use of the background vocals I think. They have such excellent voices like Jeanette Olsson who has such a great voice that you can't believe she has "only" been a background vocalist for so many years. In "I want it that way" the background vocals are a essential part of the song. The lead singer sings like in a dialogue with the choir and parts of them are then unisono. To find the perfect mixture to make this conversation vivid and interesting is also a thing Cheiron stands for in my opinion. Also so important in this "inverted" chorus  thing I wrote about above. In Jessica Folckers "How will I know" I think the background vocals in the inverted chorus and in the end are just overwhelming.

What I wanted to say I think the main difference between Backstreet Boys sound and the Westlife is that the Cheiron songs for BSB were far more synthesizer flavoured than the Westlife ones.

"Fool again" for example wouldn't have worked with BSB I think.

I don't know if this was by any means useuful but it's just interesting to think about all this stuff!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 18, 2007, 04:37:57 PM
Just listening to shape of my heart, and i would say that doesn't follow the inversion thing you are saying.
Not sure if you are meaning inversion just lyrically or chordally or both? Certainly to me, the middle eight is really important to the flow of the music. Some producers deviate too far from the general chord pattern of the song, but not cheiron!!! Im pretty sure that the middle eight is just a different pattern of the same chords that they use for the verse and chorus. Ie for instance they have 4 chords and they put them in one order for the verse, a different order for the chorus and a different order for the middle 8. Usually, the only time anything alse is in there is right in the last 2 bars where an augmented chord takes you right to the last measure.
This is definately a topic we can all get our teeth in to, i can see my working week being hampered by this!!!!!!
Yes 100% agree, bsb songs wouldn't work for westlife etc. they definately had segregated sounds unique to each artist they were working for.
But whoever the song was for, the song definatley followed the formula.
I imagine that they were like a bunch of mathematicians studying and working on some theory, and eventually they discovered what they were searching for. And that was the equation for perfect pop. I can almost imagine that somewhere max has this chalk board from a school room with an algebraic equation on it!!! :)
Back to this later!!!!!!!!!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 04:51:01 PM
Yes you are so right :D

And there indeed have been some people who wrote a programm which analysed songs and then made an prediction if it will become a hit or not. But that was in general for all the hit songs.

Concerning "Shape of my heart", it also has this inversion in it.
I mean this part, it's between the middle 8 and the next real chorus.


Im lookin back on things Ive done
I never wanna play the same old part

Ill keep you in the dark
Now let me show you the shape of my heart



Chordswise I found this one here..
With the inversion the keychange happens

as the normal chorus was like this

           D                       G
Looking back on the things I've done
       A              Fm
I was trying to be someone
            Bm
I played my part
                  E
And kept you in the dark
         G               A           D
Now let me show you the shape of my heart



Inversion
E                        A
I'm looking back on things I've done
B                      G#m
I never wanna play the same old part
C#m                     F
And keep you in the dark
A                 B                E
Now let me show you the shape of my heart


And the chorus following

E                        A
Looking back on the things I've done
       B              G#m
I was trying to be someone
           C#m
I played my part
                  F#
And kept you in the dark
         A           B              E
Now let me show you the shape of my heart
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 18, 2007, 05:34:00 PM
waoo..lol ^^


I'll read it Tonight.. I'll be back the next week!
thanks For everything!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: ®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ on February 18, 2007, 07:05:28 PM
Quote from: "malcolm hogg"But the songs i analysed and tried to break down all followed the same format. I made notes on various things. Ie, there is always an introductory lyric which expands into the fisrt verse, then chorus 1, verse2, chorus2, then that always leads into the middle eight. straight after middle eight you hava the key change and verse three then the chorus is repeated 2 or 3 times. Nearly all of the cheiron stuff was like that.
True what you're saying malcolm.
I remember when I met Jonas Berggren of Ace of Base in his studio in Gothenburg, we had a little chat about the music, and I remember him saying EVERY good pop song has to be of this structure (intro, verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, bridge/keychange, chorus, chorus, chorus...)

Writing and producing about 98% of the Ace of Base hits, I'd say he knows what he's talking about! :-P
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 18, 2007, 07:11:16 PM
Turnaround. I'm sorry, i get you now! :D  You are right!!!
I think you are right about the vocals side of things too. Again, like the live guitars and bass, it adds human touch. I think also they are clever in the way that they have after the middle 8 2 choruses, as you rightfully say with lyrical inversions. With the likes of bsb, (who i rate as infinately better vocalists than westlife) it gives 2 choruses of time for the likes of aj, nick and brian to go off into a much different vocal angle. Its almost like the song is over and they are improvising and adlibbing until the end of the track. Its like everything that needed to be said  and heard clearly in the song has been said, now its time for fun. During the main part of the song the lead and backing vocalists never ever stray far at all away from the molody or the regular scale that accompanies the key of the song. But those last 2 or 3 choruses for me are delightful, it all sounds so free form, like the cheiron guys just say "on those last 2 choruses, just let go of the reigns and sing allover the scales however you want".
Shape of my heart is a brilliant song, for me by that stage i think they were expanding the magic formula.
Theres many more chords in there. theres 9ths, suspended4ths, 7ths. I'm not sure what the key is, but i'm sure they used every chord in that key in s.o.m.h.

so has anyone tried the 5:1 thing???
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 07:22:22 PM
I would love to try it but am mostly listening on my CD speakers and don't have any 5.1 system! A pity really!  :cry:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 18, 2007, 07:33:03 PM
me too, i go to my neighbour and we listen on his. i will get a 5:1 system for my home soon i think. it really is amazing, you hear so many tiny parts.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 07:34:45 PM
I have pretty expensive (well for amateurs) headphones I also now and then hear out a little detail so at least a bit!  :D

5.1 would be so lovely but I have neither the room nor the money for it!  :wink:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on February 18, 2007, 08:38:12 PM
Quote from: "turnaround"What is an essential part of a Cheiron song is that the chorus after the Middle 8 is often "inverted". So the lyrics are just in a different order and the melody slightly differs from the original. Like in "Oops..." or in "Stronger".

yes, it's true. that's called 'counter-melody'... you can find more infos here!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-melody :wink:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 18, 2007, 08:41:12 PM
Wow, the description sounds like proper science!  :lol:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on February 19, 2007, 09:54:33 AM
Wow, this is a great topic. Even with zero musical skill I am finding what you are all saying about songwriting so interesting. I don't have the surround sound either.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 21, 2007, 02:21:11 PM
hey!!
I'm back..!!
Everything is reallly interesting!!

I'm working on this kind of song...with big "hits" and "hithat" ...  :D
with my own sound and Style!!  ^^

Thanks for all your answers!!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 21, 2007, 03:27:13 PM
I cant wait to continue this discussion also, but i'm really busy with work this week, hopefully this weekend i will get time!!!!
I'd love to hear your version of cheiron. When will you share it with us?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 21, 2007, 03:42:41 PM
I will share it this week end... you'll tell me what You think.. because it 's not perfect.. it's just the biginning...lol ^^

:D
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 21, 2007, 05:37:29 PM
Wow this is exciting!
Can't wait to hear it!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 24, 2007, 01:54:28 PM
hey !!

:D The first Demo... "Ho Yeah!!" ....
http://www.myspace.com/popsoul

Cheiron sound! ^^lol
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 24, 2007, 02:14:03 PM
Thanks for the link Nico, nice effort.
Pretty catchy, though I think it's best to judge again when there are vocals on it.
I don't know how to record songs like this.
Interesting.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 24, 2007, 02:16:59 PM
Thanks!

For the moment it's just a demo...i will still work this Song .. it was just a try for the cheiron sound... ^^

I'm waiting for your idea!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on February 25, 2007, 09:00:25 PM
Nice work Nico!
Did you write all those songs on your myspace?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 26, 2007, 01:43:37 AM
yes Rebecca I Wrote all those songs...

I'm working Hard to make a good pop song a day..! !  ^^

I remove "ho Yeah".. because it is not so good!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on February 26, 2007, 11:34:58 AM
some months ago I tried to do a Britney's old style song
(it's an instrumental version!)


http://ilgiardino.altervista.org/cheironsound.mp3
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on February 26, 2007, 12:46:26 PM
Thanks for sharing your instrumental Andrea

I have had a few listens, yes it is very Cheiron sounding. kinda boppy but then it has this real sad part in it, in the way of Britney's Can't Make You Love me (and a lot of Cheiron) - dancey/poppy but sad at the same time.
It's great!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 26, 2007, 02:20:10 PM
It's good.. ^^
but the chords before the chorus are the same that "oops i did it again"..lol..

:D and if we would write a pop music...?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 26, 2007, 02:56:43 PM
the link doesn't open for me.
I wonder if this is going to go through?!?!?!?!?!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: malcolm hogg on February 26, 2007, 02:58:56 PM
I got it to work and i got it to post. Yeah i think that is quite a reasonable go at cheiron sound. Well done.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 26, 2007, 05:12:45 PM
hey!
If Someone want to talk about it ..

I can Give My Msn adress...
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on February 26, 2007, 05:35:01 PM
Ok, tried to download it!
And definitely the right direction, very Cheiron.
Great HITS and nice rhythm!

Would love to hear this with vocals. Could be really catchy!
Well done!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on February 26, 2007, 06:51:23 PM
Thank you for your appreciation!
I have to re-compose the melody, when I'll do it I'll share with you a sung version :wink:
However you can write your own melody on my instrumental if you want! It could be a nice idea! :wink:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on February 26, 2007, 09:34:23 PM
I'll Try!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on March 02, 2007, 10:36:29 AM
Wow, it's so great to have some songwriters on this forum!

I don't know if you guys have seen this, it's the Q & A from tonos.com with Max Martin, he answers questions about songwriting. I got this from the behind the music website a few years ago, a great site devoted to Swedish songwriters that doesn't exist anyore. I think you had to be member of tonos to read this article. I dug this out last weekend.

Here it is: http://www.maxmartinfansite.com/Tonos.htm
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on March 02, 2007, 02:29:45 PM
Thanks so much for posting!!

Interesting!  :D
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Niklas on March 02, 2007, 06:01:14 PM
Thanks!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on March 02, 2007, 06:03:05 PM
Thanks it's really interesting..

But My english is not so good..lol ^^ I'll read it several times! ^^
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on March 07, 2007, 12:24:40 AM
hi Everybody..!!
Here's my new Sound.... "Shake That"

... With Violin..., Synth, Dumbek

And "Saturday Night"... between Rnb,Folk and a little country...

tell me what U Think! and your idea!!
http://www.myspace.com/popsoul
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on March 13, 2007, 08:53:13 PM
I've had a few listens to this, forgot to reply before - if you added some lyrics to the music these songs would be a lot better than the dance songs i hear on the charts!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on April 07, 2007, 10:03:17 AM
hey There!!

I have my first demo with a singer!! ! ^^

The song is called 'live in me" ...  piano,violin... and a voice !! ^^

Tell me what you think everybody !  ^^ if you want!

http://www.myspace.com/popsoul
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on April 07, 2007, 01:25:59 PM
That was nice.
A bit short though, I guess that's somehow the intro to a song.

I am impressed by the violins especially, I love violins in pop songs.

Somehow the two voices don't harmonize perfectly if you ask me, but that's something you could work on.

Like the attitude of the hook so far.

Keep going, well done.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on April 07, 2007, 04:36:10 PM
Thanks.. But I have just written the Music...

lol For the moment I don't know how to do something else!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on April 12, 2007, 04:27:48 PM
a little excerpt of a song of mine in amazing's style :roll:


http://www.italbandiere.it/cheironsound2.mp3
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on April 13, 2007, 04:38:21 PM
Andrea, that sounds great.
Are this real guitars?
With which program did you create that?

The beat is very Cheiron.  :D

Sounds very professional if you ask me!
Well done!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on April 13, 2007, 07:13:20 PM
thanks! i didn't record guitars, the solo guitar is sampled, the chords guitars are from a virtual instrument called 'real guitar'... the drum is really Cheiron, i know :D i think i've found the samples used by Cheiron's guys :lol:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on April 14, 2007, 12:15:25 PM
wow Andrea, I have had quite a few listens to it, very professional indeed.

keep going with this sound!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on April 14, 2007, 10:32:38 PM
I Love!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: emjay on April 23, 2007, 12:39:05 AM
The re-wording of the choruses you're talking about, after bridge and/or keychange, is called the Recapitulation

This is kind of applicable to the topic, but something I noticed for example, was that Shape of My Heart and Siberia use very similar phrases to make the theme what it is, but are opposites:

SOMH: "Please try to forgive me"
Siberia: "she said it's not your fault
SOMH: "hold me now, don't bother"
SOMH: "I just smiled and said let go of me"
SOMH: "I played my part"
Siberia: "did someone else steal my part?"
SOMH: "kept you in the dark/ don't put out the glow"
Siberia: "cause it's all so dark"
SOMH: "Tragical"
Siberia: "Mysterious"
SOMH: I'm here with my confession/ got nothin to hide
Siberia: I gave myself away/ was waiting for the lie
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: emjay on April 23, 2007, 01:15:47 AM
Quote from: "andrea"a little excerpt of a song of mine in amazing's style :roll:


http://www.italbandiere.it/cheironsound2.mp3


Very good chord progression. Where'd you get the snare sample from? Keep going with this for sure..
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on May 18, 2007, 07:39:55 AM
Quote from: "andrea"thanks! i didn't record guitars, the solo guitar is sampled, the chords guitars are from a virtual instrument called 'real guitar'... the drum is really Cheiron, i know :D i think i've found the samples used by Cheiron's guys :lol:


Hey Andrea, Keep up the work but those are not the drums used by Cheiron... They didn't use "virtual" instruments or samples back in the 90's at Cheiron. The drums you're looking for that they used are from the Korg M and T series workstation synths. 8) And I was going to say great guitar playing, but I guess that's just a computer sample too.  :?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on May 18, 2007, 11:57:45 AM
Welcome Tommy, are you a musician?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on May 18, 2007, 12:05:29 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"
Quote from: "andrea"thanks! i didn't record guitars, the solo guitar is sampled, the chords guitars are from a virtual instrument called 'real guitar'... the drum is really Cheiron, i know :D i think i've found the samples used by Cheiron's guys :lol:


Hey Andrea, Keep up the work but those are not the drums used by Cheiron... They didn't use "virtual" instruments or samples back in the 90's at Cheiron. The drums you're looking for that they used are from the Korg M and T series workstation synths. 8) And I was going to say great guitar playing, but I guess that's just a computer sample too.  :?

i used samples from a groovebox of korg, that maybe uses the same samples of old korg synths :wink:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Massproductions on June 16, 2007, 12:54:41 PM
Quote from: "andrea"a little excerpt of a song of mine in amazing's style :roll:


http://www.italbandiere.it/cheironsound2.mp3

Definently sounds in the right direction. The production isn't as good as the cheiron guys. I as a guitarist heard from the start that they where fake guitars. I think you should finish the song and add lyrics/melodys for it.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"Hey Andrea, Keep up the work but those are not the drums used by Cheiron... They didn't use "virtual" instruments or samples back in the 90's at Cheiron. The drums you're looking for that they used are from the Korg M and T series workstation synths. 8) And I was going to say great guitar playing, but I guess that's just a computer sample too.

Completely wrong :) They used A LOT of samples, both loops and drum hits. Akai S-1000 and S-3000, with huge piles of Syquest 44 MB disks
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 02:08:43 AM
Hello "Westhaven"... They did NOT use computer sample's at Cheiron 93-2000. They used old workstation keyboards like the M1 and Trinity for drums and orchestra hits and quite a few Emu rack synths and much more! These are where (most) of their "samples" as you call them came from. NOT a computer! :roll:

P.S I have a complete list of ALL the original equipment they used at Cheiron (in the 90's) and I personaly own most of it, so I do know what I'm talking about. That doesn't mean I have to tell everyone everything about what was used though.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 12:58:07 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"Hello "Westhaven"... They did NOT use computer sample's at Cheiron 93-2000. They used old workstation keyboards like the M1 and Trinity for drums and orchestra hits and quite a few Emu rack synths and much more! These are where (most) of their "samples" as you call them came from. NOT a computer! :roll:

P.S I have a complete list of ALL the original equipment they used at Cheiron (in the 90's) and I personaly own most of it, so I do know what I'm talking about. That doesn't mean I have to tell everyone everything about what was used though.

Sorry man, you may have a nice list of stuff, but in regards to how the stuff was used, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about :)
"Computer samples"?? What do you mean by that?
They had samplers, with thousands and thousands of sampled drums and loops, just like any other producer in the 90s. They'd go "now where is that kick we used on Herbies track" and go thru the syquest disks to find it. I'm not saying they never used a drum sound in a KORG M1, but let me assure you that it was NOT their main source of frum sounds (that idea is slightly rediculous)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 01:10:05 PM
:o So "Westhaven" who are you? And how do you know (exactly) what they did at Cheiron? I know for a fact they used the Korg Trinity and M1 drums because I own them personaly and can hear 100% that's what they used most of the time. And I don't need to go through any "disks" to find the kicks and so on they used, they are all right there on the keyboards factory preset drum kits (with the exception of a few expantion cards).
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson":o So "Westhaven" who are you? And how do you know (exactly) what they did at Cheiron? I know for a fact they used the Korg Trinity and M1 drums because I own them personaly and can hear 100% that's what they used most of the time. And I don't need to go through any "disks" to find the kicks and so on they used, they are all right there on the keyboards factory preset drum kits (with the exception of a few expantion cards).

Well of course they could have sampled the M1 and used those sounds, but from my memory the M1 drums weren't that useful.. The M1 came out in -88 or something so it was pretty old by then. If the M1 had any electronic sounds it was probably sampled from a 909 anyway :)

I know for a fact that they used the samplers for the important drum hits, as this meant they could get each sound on an individual output and into the mixing desk.
They certainly had their favourite sounds that were used in almost every track (the pad sound, a specific snare (from the emu procussion) and the "noiseshot" from the roland dance card for the 1080 that is in almost every BSB song breakdown.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 01:18:00 PM
..and I prefer to remain anonymous :)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 01:26:49 PM
Yes, the M1 came out in 1988. Denniz PoP loved to use the M1 and used the piano and strings from it quite a bit as well as the organs and saxophones. He used the M1 drums on alot of his early stuff (Dr.Alban) and so on. And the hi-hats from the M1 were more heavy and metalic sounding than some of the newer ones from the Trinity when it came out, so I noticed Denniz kept using the M1 hat's along with Trinity kicks and snares. 8)

P.S I don't think they would be so un-organised to where they had to wonder "where was that kick we used for Herbie" when it's right there on the keyboard drum kit... All you have to do is memorise which kits have the sounds you want and so on, that's all. I don't think Denniz was rummaging around through floppy disks wondering where his drum sounds were, ..lol!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"Yes, the M1 came out in 1988. Denniz PoP loved to use the M1 and used the piano and strings from it quite a bit as well as the organs and saxophones. He used the M1 drums on alot of his early stuff (Dr.Alban) and so on. And the hi-hats from the M1 were more heavy and metalic sounding than some of the newer ones from the Trinity when it came out, so I noticed Denniz kept using the M1 hat's along with Trinity kicks and snares. 8)

P.S I don't think they would be so un-organised to where they had to wonder "where was that kick we used for Herbie" when it's right there on the keyboard drum kit... All you have to do is memorise which kits have the sounds you want and so on, that's all. I don't think Denniz was rummaging around through floppy disks wondering where his drum sounds were, ..lol!

Yep, the organ bass and piano in the M1 was used quite a lot, that's correct. As I said, they loaded most drum hits into the samplers, cos they needed them to appear on separate channels in the mixing desk. Couldn't do that so easily with the M1. So it is very possible that many of the drums/cymbals were sampled from the M1, but I never ever saw them using the M1 for drums, it was always in the samplers and the occasional extra snare etc from the Emu Procussion (which had presets with just snares spread out across the keyboard). And I can assure you that they were not super organized, they had 3 studios churning out hits round the clock, moving equipment between them as they were needed (Like they only had one Jupiter 8, so that was moved back and forth). And stacks of Syquest disks (not floppies) with samples for the Akai's.
It's much easier to be organsied now with computers.. Back then it was a bit chaotic :)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 03:32:03 PM
The big workhorses were always the Roland 1080s w expansions. The piano sound in "...baby one more time" is the preset "64 voice piano" in the jv I believe.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 10:24:09 PM
The Piano from ...Baby one more time "Da dent dent" is the M1 "piano 16" played on the lower keys and put through a light distortion effect. I know 100% for sure, I have the sound and play it all the time. In regards to a "Jupiter 8" ??? If you say so! Yes, they did use (real) analog synths. Denniz PoP's favorite was the Roland Juno-106 (not Jupiter), which Denniz only had one of that he kept with him in studio 1. The same with the Yamaha DX-7, they had only one and kept it in studio 2. In regards to the Roland JV-1080, I played one (with expantions) once in a music shop and heard no familiar "Cheiron" sounds. And it's not even on the list of equipment they used... The "JV-2080" was what they did have. One in each studio room. And even at that, I don't hear the "JV" as often as you say at all whatsoever. Much much more can be found in the M1(with expantion cards) and Trinity than the "JV" series rack synths. And the M1 was NOT considered to be "too old" in the 90's by the Cheiron crew. Especialy Denniz and Kristian. In fact, Denniz kept using the (even older) Juno-106 (from 1984) well into the 90's up until the end. I don't think HE considered it to be "Outdated"... :!:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 10:40:00 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"The Piano from ...Baby one more time "Da dent dent" is the M1 "piano 16" played on the lower keys and put through a light distortion effect. I know 100% for sure, I have the sound and play it all the time. In regards to a "Jupiter 8" ??? If you say so! Yes, they did use (real) analog synths. Denniz PoP's favorite was the Roland Juno-106 (not Jupiter), which Denniz only had one of that he kept with him in studio 1. The same with the Yamaha DX-7, they had only one and kept it in studio 2. In regards to the Roland JV-1080, I played one (with expantions) once in a music shop and heard no familiar "Cheiron" sounds. And it's not even on the list of equipment they used... The "JV-2080" was what they did have. One in each studio room. And even at that, I don't hear the "JV" as often as you say at all whatsoever. Much much more can be found in the M1(with expantion cards) and Trinity than the "JV" series rack synths. And the M1 was NOT considered to be "too old" in the 90's by the Cheiron crew. Especialy Denniz and Kristian. In fact, Denniz kept using the (even older) Juno-106 (from 1984) well into the 90's up until the end. I don't think HE considered it to be "Outdated"... :!:

The 1080 and the 2080 is basically the same machine, and uses the same expansion cards. The 2080 is newer, has more voices and a bigger display. They probably exchanged the 1080s for 2080s and then 5080s in the end (not sure whan that was released) since they all had similar sounds and expansion card formats.

The Juno is analog so that never gets old :)

I guess all this is just a matter of WHEN you look at their equipment. I was there in 95 or 96, your list is maybe from 2000? I don't think the Trinity even existed in 95.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 10:46:37 PM
The Korg Trinity workstation synth was released in 1995. They used it ALL the time! Even after the Triton came out in 1999, they kept using the Trinity and Tr-rack. Denniz had his Trinity keyboard with him in studio 1 and they had Tr-racks in studio 2 and 3. In fact, Max Martin STILL has the Trinity and Tr-rack in his main control room today.
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 01, 2007, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"The Korg Trinity workstation synth was released in 1995. They used it ALL the time! Even after the Triton came out in 1999, they kept using the Trinity and Tr-rack. Denniz had his Trinity keyboard with him in studio 1 and they had Tr-racks in studio 2 and 3. In fact, Max Martin STILL has the Trinity and Tr-rack in his main control room today.

Aha ok, well I guess they hadn't gotten the KORGs yet then in 95 when I was there. Their sound did shift over the years and the equipment too of course. BTW, Dagge&Kristian used Logic, Per&David used Cubase then.

Dagge would always record each drum part as a separate track on their 2" tape machine, as playing back everything at once from Logic didn't sound tight enough (midi has lots of timing issues)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 11:18:31 PM
Yes, Denniz did record his kicks, snares, hi-hat's and so on all separatly on individuale tracks, especialy for mixing and paning purposes. That's where some people go wrong and record the kick and snare on the same track together, when you do that you can't pump the compressor through each individuale drum sound to "fatten" them up and it all ends up sounding too thin and flat. :)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Linda on August 02, 2007, 07:25:09 PM
Gosh, you guys sure know your stuff...

very interesting to read....  :)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: princessofegypt on August 03, 2007, 06:09:12 AM
synth nerd alert.  :!:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 04, 2007, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: "princessofegypt"synth nerd alert.  :!:

Indeed! (but it's ok in a thread about "the real Cheiron sound")  ;)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on August 04, 2007, 05:12:07 PM
Hehe, yes definitely.
That's what this forum is for!  :D
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Vanth on August 07, 2007, 01:27:28 AM
Hello..

Okay, first of all, no link works for me.. ,,maxmartin'sfan"-myspace page works, but i can't find there any songs to listen to or even to download. Someone else got this problem? andreas songs don't work for me either..:(


@Tommy Nelson and maxmartin'sfan:

You use Cubase an VST-Plugins and instruments for the ,,cheiron-sound"? Could you recommend any plugins?  :)

I use Steinberg virtual bassist, Hammerhead Drummashine an Ableton Live 6. But i need alot of practising though ^^....

Very good song for the cheiron sound is i.m.h.o. the britney spears songs ,,oops!..i did it again" and ,,(You drive me) Crazy!"..Very, very good songs..typicaly cheiron-style..

Regards
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on August 07, 2007, 02:45:13 AM
haha!

Yes My Page Works.. But I don't write Song with cheiron sound!
it's too old.. I Can write Pop But with dance-hall, Rnb, Hip-hop, Techno Sound.. haha

I USe  Cubase...

You can use battery 3 for the beat... and Albino 3 like Synth... Very good sound!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 07, 2007, 04:48:37 AM
Hi Vanth0r and welcome. If you really want to make the classic Cheiron sound, don't use "virtual" computer software synth's. You will be disapointed with the results and won't get the sound your looking for. Go for the (original) gear they had at Cheiron if you want to get the real Cheiron sound. :wink:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on August 07, 2007, 01:38:31 PM
I'm Agree with tommy.. It's too hard to have the classic cheiron Sound with VST!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 07, 2007, 09:52:27 PM
Much of the Cheiron sound is in the arranging, the songs, the vocals etc. You can definitely come very close using VSTis, but to be perfectly honest: if you don't know a lot about synths and arranging you will probably not get close. Using the original gear is fine of course, but not everyone can do that.

Let's put it like this: Kristian or Martin could probably r e p l ic a t e the old Cheiron sound 99% with nothing but VSTis.. but someone who has all the gear but no knowledge couldn't come even close. It's not so much what you have, it's what you do with it :)

An example: They never used "fancy" chords like 7ths etc. Always "3-finger" chords. I remember back in the day when everyone tried to copy the Cheiron sound, and a lot of the copycats didn't understand this simple "rule"..
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 07, 2007, 09:55:53 PM
This word causes the "no post mode" bug: r e p l i c a t e

spaces added so I could write the word :)
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on August 07, 2007, 09:58:09 PM
replicate

Edit: Weird, it worked!
But I had the problem too with other words.

Yes, putting spaces between it, if you know which causes it helps!

Sorry for the inconvenience!
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Westhaven on August 07, 2007, 10:01:46 PM
yes I couldn't even reply to your post because of the bad word in it..

So it's like some words are illegal for me but not for you, and probably the other way around... phpbb is usually pretty problem free..
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on August 07, 2007, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: "Westhaven"An example: They never used "fancy" chords like 7ths etc. Always "3-finger" chords. I remember back in the day when everyone tried to copy the Cheiron sound, and a lot of the copycats didn't understand this simple "rule"..

eh eh, you're completely right! :lol:
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: princessofegypt on August 08, 2007, 05:09:22 AM
^ Are you a male or female?
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on August 08, 2007, 05:43:56 PM
male
Title: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tommy Nelson on August 10, 2007, 01:45:48 AM
Hey everyone :) I agree with Westhaven. They used MANY simple "3-finger" chord progression's on their songs. Also, not everything was always "musicly correct" in the classicly trained sense. Simple, catchy, and "Direct-effective" is how you get (in Martin's word's) the "Clean lines" of the Cheiron sound.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: *Sabine* on August 10, 2008, 12:26:47 PM
Andrea, I know it's long ago but could you repost your demos sounding like Cheiron? I would just love to hear them! Grazie!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: andrea on August 10, 2008, 01:20:29 PM
oh, i do not have that file no more, but recently i made something better... still without the chorus...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cp2k2q
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: *Sabine* on August 10, 2008, 07:06:52 PM
thanks! it's really a nice verse... good rythm and nice melody. well done for a demo! let us know when you do more  ;)makes me feel like to put lyrics on it!! do you use cubase or protools?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Feelgoodlies on August 11, 2008, 01:26:25 PM
I liked you demo Andrea..., can you do more?, btw do you have the full one?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on August 12, 2008, 12:52:59 PM
Thanks Andrea, that's really nice. I'd love to hear more too.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: secski on August 13, 2008, 09:49:49 AM
Wow, andrea!

That was great!

Got the guitar strumming just right lol, they had a strumming pattern they liked using over and over i believe if you check out midi reproductions of their songs. :)

Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Raul_esp on October 21, 2008, 12:52:43 AM
Quote from: Rebecca on March 02, 2007, 10:36:29 AM
Wow, it's so great to have some songwriters on this forum!

I don't know if you guys have seen this, it's the Q & A from tonos.com with Max Martin, he answers questions about songwriting. I got this from the behind the music website a few years ago, a great site devoted to Swedish songwriters that doesn't exist anyore. I think you had to be member of tonos to read this article. I dug this out last weekend.

Here it is: http://www.maxmartinfansite.com/Tonos.htm

this is the most interesting thing I have read ever , thanks so much Rebecca !! I hadnt seen it .

there isnt way to contact with him nowadays  :'( I have so much to questions to make my idol .
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: *Sabine* on October 21, 2008, 09:51:10 AM
Quote from: Raul_esp on October 21, 2008, 12:52:43 AM
Quote from: Rebecca on March 02, 2007, 10:36:29 AM
Wow, it's so great to have some songwriters on this forum!

I don't know if you guys have seen this, it's the Q & A from tonos.com with Max Martin, he answers questions about songwriting. I got this from the behind the music website a few years ago, a great site devoted to Swedish songwriters that doesn't exist anyore. I think you had to be member of tonos to read this article. I dug this out last weekend.

Here it is: http://www.maxmartinfansite.com/Tonos.htm

this is the most interesting thing I have read ever , thanks so much Rebecca !! I hadnt seen it .

there isnt way to contact with him nowadays  :'( I have so much to questions to make my idol .

Yes, like you I saw that too late... but it WAS great!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on October 21, 2008, 11:09:10 AM
Yes, that Q & A with Max is amazing!!
I found it on a site that Linda (LJ) had put together but Linda's does not exist anymore.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: basfet on December 12, 2008, 04:58:58 AM
The Dagge productions was (and is) so great and groovy! Listen to the groove and snaredrum on Yessica Folckers Tell me what you like and even The Britney S Oops and Baby- these mostly still sound like Dagge prods- funky, nice and dry but big.(Max Martin is a good songwriter but Dagge created the cool and funky ground prod.-sound of cheiron- därmed basta) That snaredrum.. Where does it come from? Its so puncy and fat- anybody knows?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: *Sabine* on December 12, 2008, 09:55:07 AM
I have no idea where it comes from but yes, I think these FAT drums are the best way to describe the Cheiron productions. This unique sound wouldn't have existed without Denniz. All the rhytmic pattern is thanks to him. I think they were a super team with Max cause Max is even better at creating melodies.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Alex Martin on December 12, 2008, 12:45:04 PM
Welcome to the forum basfet.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on June 16, 2010, 06:17:34 AM
Quote from: Tommy Nelson on August 01, 2007, 10:24:09 PM
The Piano from ...Baby one more time "Da dent dent" is the M1 "piano 16" played on the lower keys and put through a light distortion effect. I know 100% for sure, I have the sound and play it all the time. In regards to a "Jupiter 8" ??? If you say so! Yes, they did use (real) analog synths. Denniz PoP's favorite was the Roland Juno-106 (not Jupiter), which Denniz only had one of that he kept with him in studio 1. The same with the Yamaha DX-7, they had only one and kept it in studio 2. In regards to the Roland JV-1080, I played one (with expantions) once in a music shop and heard no familiar "Cheiron" sounds. And it's not even on the list of equipment they used... The "JV-2080" was what they did have. One in each studio room. And even at that, I don't hear the "JV" as often as you say at all whatsoever. Much much more can be found in the M1(with expantion cards) and Trinity than the "JV" series rack synths. And the M1 was NOT considered to be "too old" in the 90's by the Cheiron crew. Especialy Denniz and Kristian. In fact, Denniz kept using the (even older) Juno-106 (from 1984) well into the 90's up until the end. I don't think HE considered it to be "Outdated"... :!:

OK So, What about the bass slap sounds you hear in a lot of cheiron songs??? ???
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Strumpan on August 27, 2010, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: *Sabine* on December 12, 2008, 09:55:07 AM
I have no idea where it comes from but yes, I think these FAT drums are the best way to describe the Cheiron productions. This unique sound wouldn't have existed without Denniz. All the rhytmic pattern is thanks to him. I think they were a super team with Max cause Max is even better at creating melodies.
Oh yes, the drum arrangements are the the real Denniz/Cheiron trademark, always perfect and always i harmony with the song. For me, the typical Denniz trademark is, of course, the backbeat, and that great snaredrum that sounds like a mash between a snare, a handclap and a rimshot that he used trough out his whole career. For example: Ace of base - All that she want's. Papa Dee - The first cut is the deepest. Backstreet Boys - As long as you love me. N*sync - I want you back. Does anybody have more information regarding this?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on October 12, 2010, 04:10:46 AM
Yeah where'd that one come from! The mash between a low-end snare, wide clap, and the rimshot come from? The M1, Trinity, or the Akai?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on November 25, 2010, 10:54:15 PM
Hey fellers,

I'm not sure if there's stil any life in this thread but for those, who are interested:

I personally think, Westhaven is right: It's important to talk about Songwrtiting and Arraning, too when we talk about the Cheiron Sound, not only about the Synths.

If you are interested in my analysis, then here is sth. to read:

At first I want to analyse melody and lyrics:

What I noticed while listening carefully to Cheiron productions is the strong and right connection between melody and harmony. "Right" means that the meldody is (w/out approach notes) on strong beats and mostly the root, third, or fifth the chord. Write out vocal sheets that contain melody, chord and lyrics. Then you'll know what I mean. Another aspect is the relation between repetition and new material. A very old Scheme from the Tin Pan Alley Era is the A - B - A - C form (although most of the Jazz musicians just talk about the A - A - B - A form). They used this A - B - A - C a lot at Cheiron.

For instance:
A My loneliness is killing me
B I must confess, I still believe
A When I'm not with you I lose my mind
C Give me a sign Hit me baby one more time

Look at the first line and sing the melody then the third one. Do you notice that the first line has the same melody as the second? It's like

A Statement
B Expansion
A Repeat the statement
C Conclusion!

This is only one possible form.

This is one possibility the bring structure in songs. Another one is the use of sequences:

This is an excerpt from It's Gonna Be Me ('N Sync)

Every little thing I do
Never seems enough for you

The second line has the same rhythm as the first one. The melody is also the same but starts on aonther degree:

Every little thing I do -> 5 4 b3 2 1 5 4

Never seems enough for you -> 4 b3 2 1 b7 4 b3

It's also very important that the the link between the lyrics structure and the melody structure is strong, for instance:

All you people can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life

The melody is like three lines the same and the last time is a new idea. That fits to the lyrics; the last time is the conclusion of the three upper lines and needs a different melody.

About the song title in Cheiron's music:

It's either at the beginning or at the end of the chorus:

Examples:

My loneliness is killing me
I must confess, I still believe
When I'm not with you I lose my mind
Give me a sign Hit me baby one more time

All you people can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down, You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life

The first thing is like I'm telling you I'm loney. That takes three lines and the fourth line is the rap-up, like "So regarding all this, I want you to hit me, baby, one more time."

The second one is like "Blah, blah, blah and all this blah blah blah what I just told you makes you larger than life."

Variant II:

Show me the meaning of being lonely
Is this the feeling I need to walk with
Tell me why I can't be there where you are
There's something missing in my heart

I want you to want me
For all that I am
I hope that you will try to understand
Do you feel the same
Do you feel the same

This more like I tell you something and then I'll explain it or the consequences.

Very important: The connection between Chords, Melody and Lyrics

Now I'm interested what you guys think about it. I am right? At leat partly?

I'm going to write sth. about harmony and arranging tomorrow or so.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: OverPop on November 25, 2010, 11:51:42 PM
I like your approach, there's definitely a lot more to their songwriting technique than we think.

btw sent you PM  ;)
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Raul_esp on November 26, 2010, 12:48:55 AM
It was really amazing , very interesting , great analysis!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: georg_e on November 26, 2010, 01:40:53 AM

                          That's a great analysis, very true and clear. Especially like how you described the ''A  B  A  C''  form, both for melody and lyrics!  Plz do more   :-)
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on November 26, 2010, 10:19:59 PM
Hi cowboys,

since georg_e wrote "Especially like how you described the ''A  B  A  C''  form, both for melody and lyrics!" I took a look at "...Baby one more time" again:

A My loneliness is killing me
B I must confess, I still believe
A When I'm not with you I lose my mind
C Give me a sign Hit me baby one more time

I noticed that A and C, which have the same melody, contain the same content. Thank you, Georg (Du hast einen deutschen Namen! ;-))

So here's my second part:
When I concentrate on listening to chord sequences I notice that it's almost the same as the first 30 excercises from any classical harmony training book. I learned a lot of different approaches to harmony. The one that fits best to Cheiron music is for me the classical one.

Details:
- Ballads are very often Major based
- Funky pieces and music with emphasises the beat is written in minor.

For the second category:
- Harmonic minor, no modal basements, no modal interchanges. Exception "Larger Than Life" (Backstreet Boys) has an F Major Traid. That would be Dorian Mode in the key of C Minor.
- No secondary dominants.
- Tonic chords are pure triads (no Minor Seventh Chords, no Major-Minors). An exception is "Cant' Make You Love me" by Britney Spears. There is a bridge after the second chorus which contains a Cm7 tonic chord play by a Clavinet.
- The two most important chords with subdominant function are the fourth and the sixth degree. In C-Minor it would be Fm and Ab. Example: (You Drive Me) Crazy : Cm -> Ab -> G7 -> Cm
- These two subdominant chords are not used to give an extra color. They are always before Dominant chords. Example: Everybody (Backstreet's Back) Bbm -> Gb -> F
- No use of the modal like fifth minor degree (Gm in the key of C Minor). The fifth degree has always dominant function (G or G7).
- No chord extensions (9,11,13).
- If a chord has Dominant function, it always goes back to the tonic. Never to subdominant, like in blues.
- If you want to compose music in Cheiron style and you just lay down the chords of your songs it should sound like a Choral.
- In some tunes the chord sequences of the Verse and the Chorus are equal. A different chord sequence can be found then in the Pre-Chorus. "(U Drive Me Crazy)" by Britney Spears has alomost the same chords in the verse as in the chorus (Cm -> Ab -> G7 -> Cm). The Pre-Chorus ( . . . Everytime you look at me . . .) is different since it starts with Fm7.

For the ballads the same "rules" are used but there are differences:
The ballads tend to be gernerally a little bit more harmonically tasty:
- Use of chord extensions. These extensions are sustained notes. A good example is "Sometimes" by Britney Spears. The Pre-Chorus (I Wann believe in everything . . .) starts with a II chord (Cm), that has a Bb in it so it's Cm(add11). This note is sustained throughout the Pre-Chorus and gives a little bit more harmonic color.
- Change of the key signature in different parts ("Drowning" by Backstreet Boys)
- Chord inversions to create linear basslines.
- Use of secondary daminants (before going to VI)
- Suspended fourths

I have two hints for everyone who want to analyse music in general.
1. Look for Instrumental versions.
2. Edit the audio file that your hear the difference between the left and right channel.
As an example I uploaded the Chorus of "Oops I Did It Again" by Britnes Spears. It contains four sections
1. Original
2. Original with Center Cut
3. Instrumental
4. Instrumental with Center Cut
Here is the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/433333197/Oops.mp3

So I hope I could help everone a little bit :-)
I think I will write something about Arrangement, Production and Mix tomorrow . . .
There is one thing left I wanted to say:
- There is no Cheiron music mixed and mastered in 5.1 as mentioned earlier. If you buy a normal Audio CD, it is always the same format: Stereo, 16bit, 44.1 kHz. If you have a 5.1 System (like mentioned on page 1 or 2 in this thread), this system emulates 5.1 sound by phase-inversions and that kind of stuff, that's the reason why some elements come out more poweful.

Good night, friends!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on November 27, 2010, 07:37:32 PM
Hello Guys,

as I mentioned two Days ago, here is my last Part about my Analysis: Arranging and Production
It's very dificult for me to put everything I noticed in a good Form and Concept. I try to categorize first by

Instrument and then by Mixing Tool:

Arraning In General:
There is something in Pop Music that I personally call the Who-the-X-is-Alice-Syndrom. I think everyone knows this

Song by Smokie. It's not that I don't like Smokie. They are an important part of the Pop Music History and I advise

anyone to listen to those great records from the 70s! Also the Lead Singer Chris Norman had a great Hit here in

Germany in 1986: "Midnight Lady"!

Back to topic: If you listen to "Living Next Door to Alice" then you notice that every Instrument is just playing

its Instrument-Typic Patterns. It's the most standard way to arrange a song you can think. I know a lot of

Songwriters who are an fact good songwriters but are not very far into Arraning. They write Lead Sheets for the

Band just with Chord Symbols and every Song sounds the same.

That isn't Cheiron. Cheirons music has its flavor from licks and specific Lines. That makes it so Cheiron! Every

song has not only Personality in its Composition and Lyric, also in its Arrangement. Good examples of that are

"...Baby One More Time" (the Piano Octaves at the Begining), "Get Another Boyfriend" (The Lick that is played

throughout the verse). "Lucky" (Verse pattern). Also remember the great lick from "Larger Than Life". I personally

think this kind of lick-bases Arraning Techniques come from Hard Rock and Metal Stuff. We all know Max Martin's

Roots. ;-)

Timing/Groove:

In my Opinion this is the most underestimated Topic in the discussion of the Cheiron-Sound-Secret. I think almost

no-one would call "...Baby One More Time" a typical Half-Time-Shuffle and in Fact, it isn't, but there are very

rare things (timing-wise) in this song! All 8th's are straight and on-top, but listen very carfully only to the

Bass. Any sixteenth notes are shuffled in the Bassline! Listen to the verse. In the fist bar, one sixteenth Note

before Beat 3 there is a c in the Bass that is really ternary. BUT: There is also a shaker in the 4th Bar of the

Verse and in the 8th Bar. This Shaker plays straight 16th's!

Another thing about Timing: Everyone of you, how really studied und practised Micro-Timing should recognise this:

The Bar right before the Breakdown contains a Guitar Lick that is really laid back. So the different Ways of Timing

in "...Baby One More Time" are giving a lot of "Life" and "Spirit" to it.

By the way: There are a lot of tracks from Elvis recorded in the 50s where almost every Session Musician has a

different Shuffle. Great Recordings! I can advise them to Everybody!

"Tearin' Up My Heart" by 'N Sync is real Shuffle. It's like every sixtheenth note is played on top of the first and

third part of a sixteenth triplet. It seems that the later suff is timing-wise more complicated. Kristian Lundin

Stuff tends to be more straight on top like "Bye Bye Bye".

Drums and Percussion:

A very difficult topic, since I'm not that far into Drum Programming. I really couldn't say where the Samples come

from like other Guys before me in this Thread but I think there are no real Drums in any Cheiron Songs. Maybe I

forget Something but are there any Rock Productions recorded at Cheiron? Already mentioned is the typical open Hi-

Hat on the "3-and". In generell Kristian used different Snare Drums than Max. I think the secret of the ...Baby-

One-More-Time-Snare is that it is a combination of at least two samples. One is really like a Drum Machine Snare

and the other One like a Sample of an acoustic Snare. Different to standard Pop Songs, the Drums don't play much

Fills. In "...Baby One More Time" the Fills are played by the shaker and sometimes by an open Hi-Hat. In "(You

Drive Me) Crazy" (The Stop Remix!) you hear two toms playing a little subtile Fill leading from the B-Hook after

the Breakdown the second last Chorus. But remember: What is the function of a Drum-Fill? It ties the different

parts of a song together. And this function is often done by other Elements like Swishes or inverted Orchestra

Hits. Also the Bass sometimes plays some extra Notes after eight Bars. In "(You Drive Me) Crazy" (The Stop Remix!)

and also in "Oops!... I Did It Again" there is the same percussion part in the Chorus! It sounds very good. It

contains Ride Cymbal, Cabassa and Shaker. I rebuilt and programmed it. You find it here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/433497284/Percussion.mp3

Bass:

The Productions that have a lot of Funk Influences have a real Bass Guitar Part in it. More Dance orientated Tracks

have Synth Basses that actually sound like Synth Basses and doesn't imitate Bass Guitars.

Guitar: The first important category of Guitar parts is like in "Quit Playing Games (With My Heart)": 8th Notes

throught, the second and fourth beat short, every other beat long. Songs with funky influences have a funky Guitar

with Wah-Wah playing almost nothing. Just little fills. Distorted guitars are used in "(You Drive Me) Crazy" (Album

Version) and "Larger Than Life". Nota bene: Larger Than Life is almost a Rock Song. I played it in a band. We

hardly changed the original Patterns, just played the Drum part on real Drums and used a harder distortion. Since

"Lucky" sounds a little bit as "Stand By Me" (Ben E. King is really a very good soul singer, I like his music, he

made so many good songs), there is a guitar rhythm like in 60's songs.

Backing Vocals: The backing Vocals in Cheiron songs follow some rules. In Backstreet Boys Songs the highest voice

is the root on the tonic so thar the combination Leading Note - > Root is on top. That's the reason why the Dance

Songs (Not the Ballads) by the Backstreet Boys and 'N Sync are written in around C-Minor so there is C4 on top. One

of my Cheiron Favorites is (altough I like the Britney stuff most) "Get Another Boyfriend" by Backstreet Boys. I

edited the song in a way that you can hear all Backing Vocals:

http://rapidshare.com/files/433497208/Get_Another_Boyfriend.mp3

Another thing I really really love is the Introduction of "I Want You To Want Me" by Solid HarmoniE. Wow! This is

real Polyphony! I'm not talking about ployphonic Ringtones or polyphonic Synthesizers but about a composing

technique that is older than the Major Triad! For me the Introduction sounds almost like the music of Giovanni

Pierluigi da Palestrina who was the master of polyphonic vocal music of the 16th's century or J. S. Bach.

Synthies I (Long notes and Pads):
It's very important for me to mention that one of the most sigificant arranging techniques at Cheiron was using no

Pads at all in the Verse of some Songs. The Ballad have very Pop typical Pads but the funk influenced Britney-

Spears-Songs have somthing that sounds like Synthie Strings. They are not played in the typical Band Keyboarder

Range around middle c but one octave higher. All Pads in Cheiron Songs seem to have Layerings and these Layerings

seems to get more in the Chorusses after the Breakdown or B-Hook. Sometimes just the Upper Note is layered one

Octave lower by a different sound. But how many Pad Sound are axactly there is hard to determine. String Elements

in Ballads are just like Main Stream Pop Ballads. The Voice Leading in sustained chords is very natural allthough

it doesn't always follow the rules of forbidden Parallels and right Resolutions.

Synthies II (Melodic Elements):
In Chorusses of Cheiron Songs the Melody is very often dubbled by Synthie Bells. That reminds me on ABBA. There are

also licks and Patterns played by Synthies for Example the Piano Octaves from "Baby One More Time" ore the Verse-

Lick of "Get Another Boyfriend".

Synthies III (Orchestra Hits):
The "Cheiron Hits" are mentioned earlier in this thread. They are all made by several Layerings and with a lot of

Instruments. It was also mentioned that every Act seems to have its own Hit. In "Larger Than Life" there is a

Talkbox.

Synthies IV (Dance music-like patterns):
Sometimes you hear some arpeggiated Synth Figures.

Production follows . . .
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Raul_esp on November 28, 2010, 03:37:52 PM
Tony you have an amazing knowledge of the music  ;D
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Izalightblue on November 28, 2010, 05:13:12 PM
Tony, you're amazing! Congrats and thanks for all that! ;)
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on November 28, 2010, 09:30:54 PM
Hi Everyone,

thanx for your reply. So now I know that at least two people read my Analysis. =)

Now it's about mixing:
To find a good Concept I divide the Mix in six Elements like Bobby Owsinski did in his Book:

Balance:
I would say that the Balance in all Cheiron Mixes is very mainstream-like. The Vocals seem to be on an equal level with all other Elements.

Panorama:
The late Work of the Cheiron Studios consists of Songs with a Lot of Tracks. If Elements are very little they are panned extremely left or right.

Frequency Range:
This is one of a Topic in Mixing that makes Cheiron definitely more than Average. I'm not as far into Production and Mixing as others who took part in this Discussion but I'm stil as sensitive that I sometimes hear Mixes where some Elements seem to struggle against each other because their key frequencies seem to be the same. I feel in all Cheiron Mixes you can hear all Elements very clear. If you had the Possibility to hear the tracks seperately you would notice that every track sounds small. All vocals have a large Low Cut. So I think they used Equalizers to minimize frequencies below 400 Hz. That's one reason for the clearity in the Cheiron sound.

Dimension:
Reverberation and Delay are my weakest points. I can't analyse them. :-(

Dynamics:
Compression is on of the key to Cheiron. In some Tunes it is used very hard like Britney's "You Drive Me Crazy" (The Stop Remix!). All the Orchestra Hits and the Main Riff (C-C-G-G-Ab-Ab) are hard compressed, I think when Layerings occur, the Intruments are compressed seperately and together in Bus Compression.

Interest:
All existing Tools that are used in Cheiron Songs to bring out the important parts.

Another tip for everybody who wants to analyse Cheiron Music. In some Yamaha Keyboards there is a Style called "USPop". This Style is very Cheiron-Like. You can listen to the Tracks seperately but it's only like 20 % of what a full Cheiron Track without Vocals would be. I uploaded Intro & Ending I & II:

http://rapidshare.com/files/433726913/USPop.mp3

Bye bye and good Night!
For 'N Sync Fans one word more: Bye bye bye and good Night!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Raul_esp on November 28, 2010, 11:21:24 PM
I love the ''uspop'' sound , and other of the things i like more of the cheiron music is the clarity of the songs as you say .
Your analysis is so interesting , a pity i dont understand a lot of things  :D
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on December 02, 2010, 06:12:15 AM
I love the uspop. It's super mega bangin! Timeless. Which Yamaha keyboards have this hotness?!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on December 02, 2010, 10:52:31 AM
Thanks Tony, your analysis is fantastic and so interesting. It's taken me a while to read it as it's so detailed.
I love the Get Another Boyfriend sample and the Oops samples.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on December 02, 2010, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: cheironlover on December 02, 2010, 06:12:15 AM
I love the uspop. It's super mega bangin! Timeless. Which Yamaha keyboards have this hotness?!

Hi cheironlover,

I personally own a Yamaha PSR-3000. That model is already six years old. I think that every new Yamaha arranger workstation (i.e. S910, S710 ...) has the "USPop"-style and i guess the more recent keyboards even have a better sounding version of it. And I have to say that after recording, I lifted the high frequencies a lot and put very hard compression on it. :-)

You can go to http://download.yamaha.com/top/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en and then download the "Data List" for each keyboard. In this list every style and every voice is mentioned.

Tony G.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: MicH on December 02, 2010, 01:55:42 PM
Nice posts Tony G :) And the snippet was great!

For reverb and delay, I have noticed that cheiron only used longer reverbs on different hits, like for the white-noisey percussive shot heard in lot of BSB songs. They also sculpted the reverbs to have pleasant mid and high-mid frequency range. I don't know what they used for it back in the day but I'm 99% sure it was hardware reverb back then. As for the delay they used pretty basic stuff. The key is not to overdo effects. Cheiron crew used delays/long reverb cleverly to highlight something that was worth it.

Shorter reverbs are usually used very subtly. You can't hear them directly but you can hear the "glue" and athmosphere they create when used in a mix. This is pretty much standard in mixing.

For the production values of cheiron: Cheiron and Mutt Lange ( Shania Twain's come on over album is great example of his 90's work ) shared the polished candyproduction ( that's what I call it because it's candy for the ear :) ). Its combined from millions of little things all the way from the pre-production. Make the sounds breath my cutting frequencies carefully, tame them down with compression if needed. A good midrange reverb + subtle delay make things to have 'feeling'. Sound selection and other sources are picked/recorded and tweaked carefully because it's the basis of good sounding record.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on December 02, 2010, 09:30:47 PM
Quote from: MicH on December 02, 2010, 01:55:42 PM
Nice posts Tony G :) And the snippet was great!

For reverb and delay, I have noticed that cheiron only used longer reverbs on different hits, like for the white-noisey percussive shot heard in lot of BSB songs. They also sculpted the reverbs to have pleasant mid and high-mid frequency range. I don't know what they used for it back in the day but I'm 99% sure it was hardware reverb back then. As for the delay they used pretty basic stuff. The key is not to overdo effects. Cheiron crew used delays/long reverb cleverly to highlight something that was worth it.

Shorter reverbs are usually used very subtly. You can't hear them directly but you can hear the "glue" and athmosphere they create when used in a mix. This is pretty much standard in mixing.

For the production values of cheiron: Cheiron and Mutt Lange ( Shania Twain's come on over album is great example of his 90's work ) shared the polished candyproduction ( that's what I call it because it's candy for the ear :) ). Its combined from millions of little things all the way from the pre-production. Make the sounds breath my cutting frequencies carefully, tame them down with compression if needed. A good midrange reverb + subtle delay make things to have 'feeling'. Sound selection and other sources are picked/recorded and tweaked carefully because it's the basis of good sounding record.
Thanx Tony G!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Strumpan on December 07, 2010, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: MicH on December 02, 2010, 01:55:42 PM
For the production values of cheiron: Cheiron and Mutt Lange ( Shania Twain's come on over album is great example of his 90's work ) shared the polished candyproduction ( that's what I call it because it's candy for the ear :) ).
Yes, lately I have listened a lot to Def Leppard's Hysteria, a Mutt Lange production and it is really candy for the ear, just like the Cheiron productions.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tony G. on December 07, 2010, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: MicH on December 02, 2010, 01:55:42 PM
Nice posts Tony G :) And the snippet was great!

For reverb and delay, I have noticed that cheiron only used longer reverbs on different hits, like for the white-noisey percussive shot heard in lot of BSB songs. They also sculpted the reverbs to have pleasant mid and high-mid frequency range. I don't know what they used for it back in the day but I'm 99% sure it was hardware reverb back then. As for the delay they used pretty basic stuff. The key is not to overdo effects. Cheiron crew used delays/long reverb cleverly to highlight something that was worth it.

Shorter reverbs are usually used very subtly. You can't hear them directly but you can hear the "glue" and athmosphere they create when used in a mix. This is pretty much standard in mixing.

For the production values of cheiron: Cheiron and Mutt Lange ( Shania Twain's come on over album is great example of his 90's work ) shared the polished candyproduction ( that's what I call it because it's candy for the ear :) ). Its combined from millions of little things all the way from the pre-production. Make the sounds breath my cutting frequencies carefully, tame them down with compression if needed. A good midrange reverb + subtle delay make things to have 'feeling'. Sound selection and other sources are picked/recorded and tweaked carefully because it's the basis of good sounding record.

Hi MicH,

thank you very much for your analysis. I totally agree with you There are some things I want to add:

You mentioned that they used short reverbs und delays at Cherion. That's right and I think that's one of the reasons why the sounds sound as fat as they do. But some more dance-orientated tracks have longer delays (e.g. "Stronger" by Britney Spears has a quarter note delay in the breakdown).

I think that Cheiron and Robert John "Mutt" Lange are just two very good examples of a cheesy pop music tradition. But Mutt is also known for very uncheesy music (like AC/DC). Another very important guy of that genre is Thorsten Brötzmann, but I think he is just known in Germany. ;-) Listen also to Dieter Bohlen Productions that are arrangend by Lalo Titenkov, i.e. "Free Like The Wind" or "Take Me Tonight" by Alexander, that's the most cheesy stuff I ever heard.

I think the history of pop music is longer. The most successful song in the states in 1946 was "Prisoner Of Love" by Perry Como, listen to that! That's also a lot of "Candy for the ear" like you sad. ;-) David Foster Porductions are also very cheesy and of course Walter Afanasieff. If you don't know him go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTICYACZB1U

I could go on and on . . .

Good night (for the David Hasselhoff Fans like me: Good Knight)

Tony G.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: JackSnr on December 08, 2010, 01:49:46 AM
Wow, that's such an awesome analyses, Tony.

I absolutely love it when Max goes outside the key like in Larger Than Life. It's a pity he doesn't use many key changes but the key change to the middle-8 in That's The Way It Is is so incredible. E major to E minor.  In the cherion days he loved to make the 5th chord of a minor key major to build suspense. Like using g major in BOMT which is in C minor.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: wiik on January 11, 2011, 12:02:14 AM
Whew...this is quite heavy analysis. I can but humbly add a few things:

-Songs written with emphasis on major dominant chords tend to either switch or move to the parallel (minor scale) dominant later in the song, like a harmonic surprise variation. This is very cheiron, and can be found in Show Me Love with Robyn (last time she sings "you're the one that i ever needed")

-While it is true that most chords steer clear from jazzy adds like 9th, 11th and 13ths, the key is to keep the chord simple triads and insert these adds intelligently into the melodies (only one at a time). "I Want It That Way" is a prime example of this where the very beautiful subdominant 9th is almost the foundation of the song. Just listen to the "tell me whyyyyyyyyyyyy" parts in the last choruses.

-Things are heavily repeated but cleverly disguised. This is also key to a pop song. Like re-using verse lyrics in the counter chorus, and using a calm version of the bridge or chorus as a stick part etc.

-Backing vocals are big on voice count and intelligently arranged. In verses/bridges the voice count is much less and they tend to stick to the melody (usually around a third below). In the choruses they are less clinged to the melody and more of a big choir, which is written so that the highest and the lowest notes are as close to one another as possible. Sustained chords are emphasized in the backing vocals, usually with the sustained note being the lowest.

-The 2nd verse break is a classic cheiron trick. Let the vocals do the talking for a bit and mute everything else, then let it back on a snare hit using some effect.

Thats a few exemples...analyzing these songs are not that hard but the backing vocals are very thick and heavy. Those kind of backing vocals are NOT easy to do...there are a lot of complications when writing that. Also recording and editing is a lot of work since they are so heavy on voice count. Unfortunately, cheiron-style backing vocals are almost unheard of today...for me it is definitely the icing on the cake that makes these songs so special.



Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: sysoft on August 17, 2011, 01:33:53 PM
E-MU Vintage Keys (not plus) preset #137
This is a real Cheiron sound
is the main Pad Cheiron 90's
I do not want to download any links
My account was deleted because of this
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Rebecca on August 17, 2011, 10:56:51 PM
sorry Sysoft, I did delete your account.
We have a lot of spammers join here and when you posted a link to something with the explanation 'here's my experiment' I assumed you were a spammer and just linking to some porn site.

If you want to post your link again, please do so. I won't delete you again now I know you're a real person. Thanks for joining up again.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: sysoft on August 18, 2011, 02:17:12 PM
So OK  :)
I spent a lot of time studying the sound cheiron.
There are many rules.
I suggest one of their demos sound cheiron.
The demo contained some sounds cheiron.
http://depositfiles.com/files/2emhzhoal
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8pom6a
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: sysoft on August 18, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
Another demo
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4wkjzm
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: turnaround on November 15, 2011, 04:39:31 PM
Hey sysoft,
could you please re-up your files I would love to listen to the tracks.

Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on January 07, 2012, 06:26:30 AM
OK now about that "bang" and "baoww" synths from OIDIA which keyboard did that come from?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: sysoft on January 13, 2012, 12:04:10 PM
So  bang is mix 2 sounds "power piano" - jv2080 and "QC - Drone" Akai S3000 preset.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: sysoft on January 13, 2012, 12:08:35 PM
"baoww" is sound from sound module Emu Audity2000 preset N33
Pad is sound from sound module Emu Vintage Keys
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on January 15, 2012, 01:26:50 AM
Quote from: sysoft on January 13, 2012, 12:08:35 PM
"baoww" is sound from sound module Emu Audity2000 preset N33
Pad is sound from sound module Emu Vintage Keys

Well, it looks like someday, I'll need to get my hands on those!!
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on January 22, 2012, 09:13:49 AM
OK where do most of the bass samples come from the slap bass and the regular?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tano87 on May 02, 2014, 11:55:20 AM
I missed some stuff but I've found some interesting stuff :)
I need to find out if the mentioned hints gives the right result.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: maxmartin'sfan on August 05, 2014, 11:10:43 PM
Wow I created this topic 7 years ago... WOW lool
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: Tano87 on March 06, 2015, 05:00:51 PM
I can't believe that so dated sounds are not available around the net and people doesn't share...
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on November 22, 2017, 08:25:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-vB04WZnRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs2OLJGqpoU

Both great representations of the original Cheiron.
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on April 26, 2020, 09:27:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wqp6CAakVE Which drum machine is this?
Title: Re: Cheiron Sound.. need your help!
Post by: cheironlover on June 21, 2020, 08:52:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKqzGDibDFI What's that vocal sample saying?