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Cheiron Sound.. need your help!

Started by maxmartin'sfan, February 18, 2007, 10:34:37 AM

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Tommy Nelson

:o So "Westhaven" who are you? And how do you know (exactly) what they did at Cheiron? I know for a fact they used the Korg Trinity and M1 drums because I own them personaly and can hear 100% that's what they used most of the time. And I don't need to go through any "disks" to find the kicks and so on they used, they are all right there on the keyboards factory preset drum kits (with the exception of a few expantion cards).

Westhaven

Quote from: "Tommy Nelson":o So "Westhaven" who are you? And how do you know (exactly) what they did at Cheiron? I know for a fact they used the Korg Trinity and M1 drums because I own them personaly and can hear 100% that's what they used most of the time. And I don't need to go through any "disks" to find the kicks and so on they used, they are all right there on the keyboards factory preset drum kits (with the exception of a few expantion cards).

Well of course they could have sampled the M1 and used those sounds, but from my memory the M1 drums weren't that useful.. The M1 came out in -88 or something so it was pretty old by then. If the M1 had any electronic sounds it was probably sampled from a 909 anyway :)

I know for a fact that they used the samplers for the important drum hits, as this meant they could get each sound on an individual output and into the mixing desk.
They certainly had their favourite sounds that were used in almost every track (the pad sound, a specific snare (from the emu procussion) and the "noiseshot" from the roland dance card for the 1080 that is in almost every BSB song breakdown.

Westhaven

..and I prefer to remain anonymous :)

Tommy Nelson

Yes, the M1 came out in 1988. Denniz PoP loved to use the M1 and used the piano and strings from it quite a bit as well as the organs and saxophones. He used the M1 drums on alot of his early stuff (Dr.Alban) and so on. And the hi-hats from the M1 were more heavy and metalic sounding than some of the newer ones from the Trinity when it came out, so I noticed Denniz kept using the M1 hat's along with Trinity kicks and snares. 8)

P.S I don't think they would be so un-organised to where they had to wonder "where was that kick we used for Herbie" when it's right there on the keyboard drum kit... All you have to do is memorise which kits have the sounds you want and so on, that's all. I don't think Denniz was rummaging around through floppy disks wondering where his drum sounds were, ..lol!

Westhaven

Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"Yes, the M1 came out in 1988. Denniz PoP loved to use the M1 and used the piano and strings from it quite a bit as well as the organs and saxophones. He used the M1 drums on alot of his early stuff (Dr.Alban) and so on. And the hi-hats from the M1 were more heavy and metalic sounding than some of the newer ones from the Trinity when it came out, so I noticed Denniz kept using the M1 hat's along with Trinity kicks and snares. 8)

P.S I don't think they would be so un-organised to where they had to wonder "where was that kick we used for Herbie" when it's right there on the keyboard drum kit... All you have to do is memorise which kits have the sounds you want and so on, that's all. I don't think Denniz was rummaging around through floppy disks wondering where his drum sounds were, ..lol!

Yep, the organ bass and piano in the M1 was used quite a lot, that's correct. As I said, they loaded most drum hits into the samplers, cos they needed them to appear on separate channels in the mixing desk. Couldn't do that so easily with the M1. So it is very possible that many of the drums/cymbals were sampled from the M1, but I never ever saw them using the M1 for drums, it was always in the samplers and the occasional extra snare etc from the Emu Procussion (which had presets with just snares spread out across the keyboard). And I can assure you that they were not super organized, they had 3 studios churning out hits round the clock, moving equipment between them as they were needed (Like they only had one Jupiter 8, so that was moved back and forth). And stacks of Syquest disks (not floppies) with samples for the Akai's.
It's much easier to be organsied now with computers.. Back then it was a bit chaotic :)

Westhaven

The big workhorses were always the Roland 1080s w expansions. The piano sound in "...baby one more time" is the preset "64 voice piano" in the jv I believe.

Tommy Nelson

The Piano from ...Baby one more time "Da dent dent" is the M1 "piano 16" played on the lower keys and put through a light distortion effect. I know 100% for sure, I have the sound and play it all the time. In regards to a "Jupiter 8" ??? If you say so! Yes, they did use (real) analog synths. Denniz PoP's favorite was the Roland Juno-106 (not Jupiter), which Denniz only had one of that he kept with him in studio 1. The same with the Yamaha DX-7, they had only one and kept it in studio 2. In regards to the Roland JV-1080, I played one (with expantions) once in a music shop and heard no familiar "Cheiron" sounds. And it's not even on the list of equipment they used... The "JV-2080" was what they did have. One in each studio room. And even at that, I don't hear the "JV" as often as you say at all whatsoever. Much much more can be found in the M1(with expantion cards) and Trinity than the "JV" series rack synths. And the M1 was NOT considered to be "too old" in the 90's by the Cheiron crew. Especialy Denniz and Kristian. In fact, Denniz kept using the (even older) Juno-106 (from 1984) well into the 90's up until the end. I don't think HE considered it to be "Outdated"... :!:

Westhaven

Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"The Piano from ...Baby one more time "Da dent dent" is the M1 "piano 16" played on the lower keys and put through a light distortion effect. I know 100% for sure, I have the sound and play it all the time. In regards to a "Jupiter 8" ??? If you say so! Yes, they did use (real) analog synths. Denniz PoP's favorite was the Roland Juno-106 (not Jupiter), which Denniz only had one of that he kept with him in studio 1. The same with the Yamaha DX-7, they had only one and kept it in studio 2. In regards to the Roland JV-1080, I played one (with expantions) once in a music shop and heard no familiar "Cheiron" sounds. And it's not even on the list of equipment they used... The "JV-2080" was what they did have. One in each studio room. And even at that, I don't hear the "JV" as often as you say at all whatsoever. Much much more can be found in the M1(with expantion cards) and Trinity than the "JV" series rack synths. And the M1 was NOT considered to be "too old" in the 90's by the Cheiron crew. Especialy Denniz and Kristian. In fact, Denniz kept using the (even older) Juno-106 (from 1984) well into the 90's up until the end. I don't think HE considered it to be "Outdated"... :!:

The 1080 and the 2080 is basically the same machine, and uses the same expansion cards. The 2080 is newer, has more voices and a bigger display. They probably exchanged the 1080s for 2080s and then 5080s in the end (not sure whan that was released) since they all had similar sounds and expansion card formats.

The Juno is analog so that never gets old :)

I guess all this is just a matter of WHEN you look at their equipment. I was there in 95 or 96, your list is maybe from 2000? I don't think the Trinity even existed in 95.

Tommy Nelson

The Korg Trinity workstation synth was released in 1995. They used it ALL the time! Even after the Triton came out in 1999, they kept using the Trinity and Tr-rack. Denniz had his Trinity keyboard with him in studio 1 and they had Tr-racks in studio 2 and 3. In fact, Max Martin STILL has the Trinity and Tr-rack in his main control room today.

Westhaven

Quote from: "Tommy Nelson"The Korg Trinity workstation synth was released in 1995. They used it ALL the time! Even after the Triton came out in 1999, they kept using the Trinity and Tr-rack. Denniz had his Trinity keyboard with him in studio 1 and they had Tr-racks in studio 2 and 3. In fact, Max Martin STILL has the Trinity and Tr-rack in his main control room today.

Aha ok, well I guess they hadn't gotten the KORGs yet then in 95 when I was there. Their sound did shift over the years and the equipment too of course. BTW, Dagge&Kristian used Logic, Per&David used Cubase then.

Dagge would always record each drum part as a separate track on their 2" tape machine, as playing back everything at once from Logic didn't sound tight enough (midi has lots of timing issues)

Tommy Nelson

Yes, Denniz did record his kicks, snares, hi-hat's and so on all separatly on individuale tracks, especialy for mixing and paning purposes. That's where some people go wrong and record the kick and snare on the same track together, when you do that you can't pump the compressor through each individuale drum sound to "fatten" them up and it all ends up sounding too thin and flat. :)

Linda

Gosh, you guys sure know your stuff...

very interesting to read....  :)

princessofegypt


Westhaven

Quote from: "princessofegypt"synth nerd alert.  :!:

Indeed! (but it's ok in a thread about "the real Cheiron sound")  ;)

turnaround

Hehe, yes definitely.
That's what this forum is for!  :D
And I liked it..