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Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p

Author Topic: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p  (Read 462 times)

Offline Dagge

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Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« on: May 21, 2018, 11:13:25 PM »
As of May 2018 Billboard top 100 sounds like there are amateur rehearsal recordings, almost no music at all.  There is no knowledge and talent involved, no song structure and certainly no craftmanship, just some rhythm and pretentious, weird text. You do not need music professionals for making that kind of music.

How will Max adapt and get used to this no-music style is a big question. I certainly hope we will not be forced to go thru the (c)rap era again.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 11:17:02 PM by Dagge »

Offline maximel

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 12:03:00 AM »
As of May 2018 Billboard top 100 sounds like there are amateur rehearsal recordings, almost no music at all.  There is no knowledge and talent involved, no song structure and certainly no craftmanship, just some rhythm and pretentious, weird text. You do not need music professionals for making that kind of music.

How will Max adapt and get used to this no-music style is a big question. I certainly hope we will not be forced to go thru the (c)rap era again.

I think we have just seen the beginning of Max reinventing himself... For instance, Taylor Swift's new song "…Ready For It?" uses some of these new sound elements already. I honestly think it will take some time before we see what Max and his team will end up doing long-term.

Cheers! :)

Maximel
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 12:14:19 AM by maximel »

Offline B Steady

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 10:26:41 AM »
[...] Taylor Swift's new song "…Ready For It?" [...]

... that came out almost 7 months ago.
Vila i frid Dag

Offline maximel

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 01:13:34 PM »
... that came out almost 7 months ago.

Right. We haven't had that many Max songs charting extremely well since then... (Referring to the Billboard Hot 100) We have the new Ariana Grande single but I personally feel like that has more of a pop sound to it vs an attempt to do a mixture of pop and the U.S. trending style of rap. So it's a "new" song for him given us comparing it to other competetive songs on the Billboard Hot 100.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 04:18:20 PM by maximel »

Offline Dagge

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 01:28:00 PM »
Musically speaking, while we have to respect exCheiron style that prevailed on charts for so long, their arrangements and production sound quite boring and not moving  compared to 30 year old Quincy Jones/ Michael Jackson mixes for example. Those old arrangements and production are still unmatched by Cheironers that put layers of sound but their rhythm, moving and stereo image is quite boring and so to say static and 'automated'. They never play 'question' and 'answer' arrangement stuff. I think many of those guys including Dr Luke are lame compared to Jones/ Swedien lively and rich rhythmic arrangements. Hopefully new era will come that will make arrangements and production interesting and fresh again.

I am huge Cheiron fan but more and more I see them as boring, always same tricks, arrangements and 'math', while melodies are recycled infinitely. I suppose Max is relying on younger guys for modern arrangements while he is concentrated on a melody. The deal is probably you give me modern arrangement and I will give you my connections, looks like a a business agreement to me. Problem is that young guys do not posess enough skills needed for making highly interesting arrangements, which is a rare craft with both talent and experience required. If you download multitrack stems you will see what I am talking about. They all 'surf' on Max's melodies and his well oiled connections. YouTube is full of 'advices' about Max tricks, which is silly. When everybody and their neighbor is giving a tip for buying stocks, it's time to get out.

There is an old story about early Cheironers that stayed during nights in studio trying to copy Denniz and Max production and tricks. Which means they copied other's style instead of developing their own, that's why they all sounded the same, despite of their different ethnic origins.

I would like to see combination of Max melodies with fresh, moving and interesting arrangements made by some really talented guy. Looks like there are alot of good topliners but talented arrangers/producers are very rare.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 01:48:42 PM by Dagge »

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2018, 11:52:36 PM »
I suppose Max is relying on younger guys for modern arrangements while he is concentrated on a melody. 
I would like to see combination of Max melodies with fresh, moving and interesting arrangements made by some really talented guy. Looks like there are alot of good topliners but talented arrangers/producers are very rare.

That's it.

Plus, the charisma of the artist.

Offline Dagge

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 04:13:30 PM »
I hate to say this, but I think their era is over. Looking at last couple of years, mostly not so clever, recycled melodies and hundereds of tracks of cacofony called arrangement. It's so far from their founder Denniz principle who said put a few tracks only, but make them good. I listened some stems, more than 100 tracks and you really dont know what they are trying to acomplish. For example layers of stereo synths layered together, all on same frequencies, quite amateurish and a nightmare for a mix. I wonder who made this, you never do that.

Those guys around Max are not stellar, Shellback for example has talent but he cannot compete with Max, he wore out his idea pool pretty fast, and his arr & produstion skills are not top notch. Max outpaced all of them, including Dr. Luke.

Stock Aitken Waterman hitmakers had same problem at the end of their era, putting tons of arrangement tracks trying to stay relevant, while their mix engineers said those songs were unmixable.

I think we are awaiting for fresh guys, and I'm sure rec industry A&R-s know that too (but don't want to tell Max & crew).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 04:20:53 PM by Dagge »

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 07:22:50 PM »
You're not too excited, I guess.

If I want to listen to exciting new music, I don't listen to the Top 40.

Offline Dr. Fleischman

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 12:31:54 AM »
If you call Mattman & Robin's or Ali Payami's arrangements "hundreads of tracks of cacofony" I'd like to hear your productions. Bitter as hell.

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 06:59:04 PM »
If you call Mattman & Robin's or Ali Payami's arrangements "hundreads of tracks of cacofony" I'd like to hear your productions. Bitter as hell.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

And as a sound designer, layers is the only way to get the sound texture you look for.

Offline Dagge

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 11:18:02 AM »
If you call Mattman & Robin's or Ali Payami's arrangements "hundreads of tracks of cacofony" I'd like to hear your productions. Bitter as hell.

No need for bad feelings, we are only discussing. I know what I am talking about. You never put more than five different elements playing in the same time into arrangement. Only exception is when you layer more sounds that play same part. But if you layer synths, you combine different frequencies, for example you put lo-mid from one sound and add hi-mid from another. You never layer several synth sounds that occupy same frequencies because sound is two-dimensional.

Once you occupy certain frequency range there is no need to put another sound in same range because this will add decibels and other instruments will be forced to lower their gain level in order not to surpass 0 dB limit. Second problem is layering stereo synths, it's always bad decision because synth plugin stereo is of lower quality compared to dedicated stereo plugins like reverb or harmonizer. Plus problems with phase.

Early Cheiron works were excellent and they used all mentioned rules. I will repeat, newer arrs are quite amateurish, I don't know who has done that but they lack skills and maybe even talent. They ride on Max melodies it is quite obvious.

One clever industry insider from USA said that melody was, is and will be king. Everything else is dressing which changes with fashion. You put rock, pop, hip.hop, dance etc dressing, but good catchy melody is always the same, and always in demand.

But while coining that new kinda 'fresh' arrangement style, you must obey general psychoacoustic rules. World knowledge didnt start yesterday from scratch.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 12:07:16 PM by Dagge »

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 07:00:21 PM »
You know what? I always go back to classic acoustic songwriting.

The rest is just like clothes, it can change.

Offline Dagge

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2018, 08:07:00 PM »
You know what? I always go back to classic acoustic songwriting.

The rest is just like clothes, it can change.

Those words weren't mine, but of head of ASCAP. The guy who directs next year style to be played on radio stations.

Offline AlexanderLaBrea

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 01:10:36 AM »
What are you talking about? Firstly, the head of ASCAP is a "she", and secondly, ASCAP has no impact on setting trends. They manage the royalty payouts for songwriters BASED on plays/streams etc...

Offline Dagge

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Re: Billboard Hot 100 sounds like cr*p
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 02:14:39 PM »
What are you talking about? Firstly, the head of ASCAP is a "she", and secondly, ASCAP has no impact on setting trends. They manage the royalty payouts for songwriters BASED on plays/streams etc...

No need to continue this. I mentioned a guy that was former executive there, he said that there is informal committee that directs what will be played on radio stations next year. Thy kinda influence future taste, because we know that radio today is programmatic. Radio DJ's on main stations mostly don't play songs based on their own taste, because advertisers don't want to risk their money experimenting with something new. I hope this will clarify things enough, thanks.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 02:18:33 PM by Dagge »