Ava Max debut album 'Heaven & Hell'

[j.fco.morales]

Yes sounds 2010, especially that RedOne songs which currently is the only song of the album on BB. Yeah, looks like he is more in the sound design.

Not even sure if Girls Like You was written by him. I vaguely remember that Akon & Tuinfort were involved in the making of the song and that they sold the song without getting the credits (ghostwriting). Akon's voice is in the chorus though (source: https://twitter.com/WeissSound/status/1080955878008750082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Maroon 5   Girls Like You
Edited By [Digital] – Noah "Mailbox" Passovoy
Engineer – Eric Eylands, Gian Stone, Noah "Mailbox" Passovoy
Engineer [Assistant] – Eric Eylands
Engineer [For Mix] – John Hanes
Guitar – Adam Levine, Jason Evigan
Keyboards, Producer, Programmed By – Cirkut, Jason Evigan
Mixed By – Serban Ghenea
Producer [Vocals] – Cirkut, Gian Stone, Jason Evigan
Vocals – Adam Levine
Vocals [Additional] – Cirkut, Gian Stone, Jacob Kasher Hindlin, Jason Evigan, Noah "Mailbox" Passovoy, Victoria Evigan
Written-By – Adam Levine, Starrah, Jason Evigan, Henry Walter, Gian Stone

Well, we can conclude many things. I think these type of records are based on the artist and from my point of view the collaborators are there to help with the artist's vision.
And she's in development... so.

Akon is not on the credits -checked those on the booklet- but I have to agree that sounds very much like Akon's style.
Honestly, I'm not sure if people "sell" the songs without getting proper pay or royalties. People pitch songs when the artist doesn't write... and I mean, if you're an established songwriter/producer why would you accept an advance when you can get money from the publishing, since the song is getting a proper release with a proper marketing strategy involved pushing it? Remember it's an established worldwide act signed to a major label.

I understand your point about "selling the song" but it doesn't make sense since now more than ever, songwriters and producers are fighting for fair royalties and pushing the Music Modernization Act.

[Snipes3000]

You never know what is gonna be a hit. A major label pushing does not always mean succcess. Even for them it has been hard and it is often said that what a hit is happens because of the right circumstances rather than purely the song itself. Sometimes it's better to take say 100k to ghostwrite than to depend on sales since most songs don't make money at all. If the label offers 100k (they might do that when they have confidence in commercial success) or songwriting credits and let your money depend on the sale, then I can understand that sometimes a writer would choose for the 100k. The Akon & Tuinfort duo does not release that many hit songs a year for them to have enough money to always claim songwriting credits. But these are all speculations and this is the only song I came across from recent years that has a suspicion of being (partly) ghostwritten.

[nanofives]

Do Akon and Giorgio still collaborating? I haven't seen any of them since... maybe 2012, just after Giorgio started collaborating with David Guetta for most of his songs.

This is a question out of ignorance: If you start a song by getting a scrapped demo from another writer, and it turned out to be nothing like the original, do the original writers need to be credited?

[j.fco.morales]

You never know what is gonna be a hit. A major label pushing does not always mean succcess. Even for them it has been hard and it is often said that what a hit is happens because of the right circumstances rather than purely the song itself. Sometimes it's better to take say 100k to ghostwrite than to depend on sales since most songs don't make money at all. If the label offers 100k (they might do that when they have confidence in commercial success) or songwriting credits and let your money depend on the sale, then I can understand that sometimes a writer would choose for the 100k. The Akon & Tuinfort duo does not release that many hit songs a year for them to have enough money to always claim songwriting credits. But these are all speculations and this is the only song I came across from recent years that has a suspicion of being (partly) ghostwritten.

I totally agree with you about not knowing when something could be a huge hit but I guess you wish the record would be big it every time you write a song.
And publishing is the real deal. To get a cut by an established artist is a huge thing for any songwriter/producer, even if you're not at the peak of your career.
Now management companies are focused on producers rather than artists: producers make more money publishing wise not spending a dime on marketing, that's what artists do.

For example: Mariah allegedly made over US $600k last year for ONE song. Include all the platforms, radio, syncs, etc.
https://www.out.com/music/2019/12/16/mariah-careys-all-i-want-christmas-you-finally-hit-1

[*Sabine*]

I was actually checking here to see if you guys were talking about this album! I've had it on heavy rotation since its release and for me too, it saved 2020 as far as pop music is concerned! It shows Cirkut is a brilliant producer, even without Luke or Max, almost every song on this record is a banger! Such a pleasure for a Max/ Cheiron/ 90's pop fan! Yeah, it is not so original, yeah some lyrics are cheesy but who cares? You have great melodies, super produced vocals, groovy sounds, singalong and feelgood songs, a very nice and identifiable singer... I have no more to ask! It is so good!! Great to have a nice karaoke in your car! Album of the year, well done Ava MAX!!!!  My favorite song is Shellback's co production Call me tonight. Salt, So Am I and Rumors are such ear candies too! I bet Dr Luke, Loctor Duke, Dyson Trax, Martin Sandberg, Martin White and Max Martin...well, the 2 of them and not 6 of them LOOOL love it too!! BLAST THE GOOD POP and SAVE 2020!!!

[backgammonfiend]

lol i wanted more 2010 pop instead of 1986 pop in my life thank u very much

this easy AOTY for me, there's 12 bangers on here out of 15, you just don't see that kind of hit rate on pop albums anymore and there aren't any outright duds like Good In Bed... cirkut put the fire melodies on this tape and that's all that counts. melody is king

Please wmg drop the wave beats and not the 160 beats thanks 🙏

[klukan]

I was actually checking here to see if you guys were talking about this album! I've had it on heavy rotation since its release and for me too, it saved 2020 as far as pop music is concerned! It shows Cirkut is a brilliant producer, even without Luke or Max, almost every song on this record is a banger! Such a pleasure for a Max/ Cheiron/ 90's pop fan! Yeah, it is not so original, yeah some lyrics are cheesy but who cares? You have great melodies, super produced vocals, groovy sounds, singalong and feelgood songs, a very nice and identifiable singer... I have no more to ask! It is so good!! Great to have a nice karaoke in your car! Album of the year, well done Ava MAX!!!!  My favorite song is Shellback's co production Call me tonight. Salt, So Am I and Rumors are such ear candies too! I bet Dr Luke, Loctor Duke, Dyson Trax, Martin Sandberg, Martin White and Max Martin...well, the 2 of them and not 6 of them LOOOL love it too!! BLAST THE GOOD POP and SAVE 2020!!!

Totally agree to this! And that’s why I made this post: Because I believed that every Cheiron/90’s pop fan would love this album!

However, I see some good discussions in here and I do agree that the album does not sound current (and it’s probably more 2010 than 2020), but that’s not the point. This is for pop music lovers who still crave melodic, catchy pop songs (and I think there are more of them than you would think). You can argue that the sound is not up-to-date, but you can’t mess with the productions: They are BANGING, pop perfection, the melodies are catchy-as-hell earworms and the vocal arrangements are ON POINT!!
I agree that Ava Max is more of an old-school pop star: A pretty face singing some well-crafted pop songs (that she’s been co-writing, though), which is not the typical cool 2020-style pop star. However, to me it’s all about the songs ! And when that is said, I think they’ve done an ok job to make Ava Max distinct from the rest of the pop star field (with the haircut thing, the “heaven&hell”/feminist concept - even though it’s corny and done before, I know).

P.S. Fun fact with the ‘Girls Like You’ / Akon story. It totally makes sense and I‘m sure it’s true.

[Feelgoodlies]

I definitely think it's a good pop record in this day and age. As a cheiron fan I really thought she recreated that cheiron-esque taste of music I've always loved, and quite frankly I didn't expect her to release a full album of uptempo songs that are all listenable and catchy. She literally saved 2020 for me.

[nanofives]

I like the song but... Why? Did she recorded it last month and wanted to add it on a project that has already an structure just to break it?
I've seen the same thing with tove lo's sunshine kitty where she uses a 40 second track as an intro and then she added 4 more new songs before that.

[Feelgoodlies]

I like the song but... Why? Did she recorded it last month and wanted to add it on a project that has already an structure just to break it?
I've seen the same thing with tove lo's sunshine kitty where she uses a 40 second track as an intro and then she added 4 more new songs before that.

idk why she released a song that samples this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRvGZffXhfk&ab_channel=GattikusHoward and her label is a mess when it comes to releases!!

[Dagge]

Some interesting thoughts here. Generally speaking, these regularly repeated music taste cycles can be divided into a melodic pop cycle like exCheiron era and melody-less era with mostly rap/hip hop songs. Based on the past, melodic cycles usually last longer.

What's different is an arrangement, production, and a way of dressing those melodic or non-melodic songs. Many people regularly underestimate how hard it is to build modern good sounding production. Because tools never change, they mostly use the same sound equipment as 30 years ago while rules are mostly the same. And you cannot invent anything remarkably new that wasn't exploited already before. Re this Max once said that their songs would sound silly if not dressed in a good production. But people like Max will always be in demand because melody never gets out of fashion if only for the slow tempo hit ballads that are present in both cycles.

Ava is ok but lacks a more defined public character. Her voice sound is ok (thanks to Serban Ghenea) although not better or more distinctive than other divas. As someone already mentioned arrangement is not quite close to Max, no dynamic, no clever surprises, the song goes on until the end and that's it. Melodies are good, maybe a bit too sugarcoated

But I have respect for people like @Sabine who are eagerly waiting for every new melodic, nice produced pop song. They ensure that this pop industry will never die. What makes me wonder is how are they as non-professionals able to recognize 'insider' things that go on in a pop song, things that theoretically only professionals should spot (and understand).

[j.fco.morales]

I absolutely agree with you Dagge.

Lack of personality, it's a little bit meh. There's a lot of potential but needs some development.
In the other hand, we have other people like Allie X with LOTS of charisma but not wanting to go deep into a sugar coated pop territory.

[turnaround]

Rami was in the studio with Ava and Cirkut and Aldae Long!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMnGEYiASYG/

[Alaksa7]

Ich muss mir dieses Album anhören. Danke für die Updates.

[backgammonfiend]

wild thing highkey song of the year

Call me when max manages to write a melody as good as this again... this easily washed all those after hours singles and whatever else he's written in the last 3 years too