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Other music and off-topic => Studios, Sounds, Vocals and Tech-Talk => Topic started by: crushroller on February 02, 2014, 04:07:24 PM

Title: StringWheel pad?
Post by: crushroller on February 02, 2014, 04:07:24 PM
Hi I heard this was a very used pad by Cheiron and wanted to hear what it was.. was told it was on EMU vintage keys but I've read the manual and in the patch listing there is no patch called StringWheel. A Google search brought me to this forum but the topic about StringWheel seems to have been deleted, and the forum search doesn't come up with any results. Could anyone please shed some light?
Thank you
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: nznexus on February 02, 2014, 07:04:00 PM
as if i understand you want to hear this pad sound right?

maybe the pad sound is from the roland JV 2080

emu vintage keys is from emulator i guess. but vintage keys does not have any pad sounds only piano sounds.

Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: BennyJ on February 02, 2014, 09:17:52 PM
There've been two versions of the Vintage Keys. String Wheel is on the so-called Vintage Keys Plus. I own that module and can confirm that the sound is on position 15.

I think this was used in the background of many older Cheiron songs but would say it's not very interesting and probably easy to replicate with a good virtual-analog synth. However, if you need it, I could possibly sample it.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: crushroller on February 02, 2014, 11:24:03 PM
Thank you Benny for that info and Nexus for your input

Benny if you were up for doing that I would really love you to and would happily send you some money for your time. Just had a look on YouTube for the sound on Plus videos and didn't come across any, also just looked on eBay for the Plus but didn't find any for sale either
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Lucalucky on February 02, 2014, 11:54:58 PM
I benny j... can you sample it... tnx

Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: BennyJ on February 03, 2014, 12:00:40 AM
Ok, I'll do it tomorrow. Would it be sufficient if just recorded it and left it to you to do the necessary cutting and looping? (cause it's quite some effort).

I will record 7 octaves, every note, two velocity levels (127 & 64), MIDI controlled, each note one bar long (at 120 bpm) with two bars of separation between them, all at 192KHz/24 bit wave. Let me know if this makes sense or if you need anything else.

Best,
Benny
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: crushroller on February 03, 2014, 12:06:33 AM
Benny that would be perfect thank you, you are a Godsend do you want some money? I can at least send you 15 bucks or something if you don't want anything.. will pay for your next meal at the diner  :)
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Lucalucky on February 03, 2014, 12:13:11 AM
 Perfect thanks bro.......
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: BennyJ on February 03, 2014, 10:29:49 PM
Hi, ok you can download it from here:  8)

https://mega.co.nz/#!lkR1RDwQ!EDRYMh_nL5CHIew6_St8FmywVjW0p-2HK8SbY7Kw2TA

- package contains 2 wave files (24bit, 96KHz), based on different velocity settings (127, 64)
- also contains a MIDI file with the notes (in case you need them)
- notes start at C0 and go all the way up to B6. Each note is one bar long (at 120 bpm) followed by one bar of separation
- Recording was done with the Vintage Keys' volume set to maximum and 6dB of input gain applied. No normalization has been applied.

So I think this should allow you to sample it accurately and end up with a very realistic copy of the String Wheel sound.

Let me know if you need anything else.

P.S. I've attached a short String Wheel example as mp3 so you get an idea what it sounds like...
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: nznexus on February 04, 2014, 07:17:13 AM
i just listened to this pad sound and it sounds nothing special.

i dont get why people want it.!

but thanks for sampling it anyway

it sounds like it could be from roland d 50 or something
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: BennyJ on February 04, 2014, 09:08:20 AM
Yeah I know, it sounds just like a simple pad sound.

But I guess some people want to replicate the original Cheiron sonic landscape so it makes sense to use it. Also, as with many of these EMU sounds, they fit nicely in the mix because they're not as heavy-weight as many of the modern synth sounds.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: nznexus on February 04, 2014, 10:55:03 AM
it sounds dated. i wonder in w hich songs they used this pad sound?
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: crushroller on February 04, 2014, 12:03:32 PM
Thank you Benny! Just downloaded the archive, will report back
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: crushroller on February 05, 2014, 12:04:25 PM
It really is a beautiful pad it fits beautifully into the mix and has lovely movement. I haven't done the looping but I will post an .nki for it when it's done for anyone who wants the instrument

Here it is in a mix: https://soundcloud.com/robertdeanmusic/stringwheel/s-2JzrP
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: nznexus on February 05, 2014, 06:10:20 PM

no but seriously.. thats interesting mix you made.

would u share the kontakt format for this sound
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Raul_esp on February 05, 2014, 11:28:31 PM
It really is a beautiful pad it fits beautifully into the mix and has lovely movement. I haven't done the looping but I will post an .nki for it when it's done for anyone who wants the instrument

Here it is in a mix: https://soundcloud.com/robertdeanmusic/stringwheel/s-2JzrP

Cool , Very Cheiron. :P
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: SteveZack on February 09, 2014, 07:14:54 PM
Drums sound awesome, very fat.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Oroz on February 09, 2014, 08:23:00 PM
Yeah! Drums sounds awesome!
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Andreasl1984 on December 06, 2015, 09:16:45 PM
can someone please upload it again? I've been P.M every guy in this thread, no one seems active, anyone else got it!? :'(
I grew up with this sound, i LOVE this sound, i've been looking for it for sooooo long.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: BennyJ on December 12, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
Hi, I've uploaded it again. You can download it from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9li6xglqoscabb/export.rar?dl=0
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Andreasl1984 on December 13, 2015, 07:07:36 PM
Great, Thanks! :D
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on December 17, 2015, 12:43:52 PM
Is it still the sample or the whole kontact thing?
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Andreasl1984 on December 20, 2015, 08:54:11 PM
I made one, but it's not looping, so you have to have a tempo of 120 or higher to use it.
Which is kinda sad, because if you try to loop it, it will be kinda impossible, all tones have to be cut exactly the same, since the patch has this vibrato effect, so really it should have been re-sampled by BennyJ in a really slow tempo like 90bpm, slowest cheiron track i can think of in my head is Robyn - Show me love, that's 91bpm. Pretty much all Cheiron tracks are slower then 120 making it impossible to use the pad for anything but modern tracks, which of course isn't wrong, but if you really want that retro 90's sound, this has to be resampled with a slower tempo, so one doesnt need to bother about the looping, since it's pointless for a patch like this (with vibrato that needs to be cut exactly, would take aaaaaages to do, if it's even possible at all! without some advanced cutting analyzing program that can sense the vibrations and cut it exacltly where it starts to vibrate and end, etcs, you get the point!).

Anyways P.M for the kontakt library as it is now, i'll do another one if BennyJ does a re-sample :)
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on January 17, 2016, 12:29:41 PM
I made one, but it's not looping, so you have to have a tempo of 120 or higher to use it.
Which is kinda sad, because if you try to loop it, it will be kinda impossible, all tones have to be cut exactly the same, since the patch has this vibrato effect, so really it should have been re-sampled by BennyJ in a really slow tempo like 90bpm, slowest cheiron track i can think of in my head is Robyn - Show me love, that's 91bpm. Pretty much all Cheiron tracks are slower then 120 making it impossible to use the pad for anything but modern tracks, which of course isn't wrong, but if you really want that retro 90's sound, this has to be resampled with a slower tempo, so one doesnt need to bother about the looping, since it's pointless for a patch like this (with vibrato that needs to be cut exactly, would take aaaaaages to do, if it's even possible at all! without some advanced cutting analyzing program that can sense the vibrations and cut it exacltly where it starts to vibrate and end, etcs, you get the point!).

Anyways P.M for the kontakt library as it is now, i'll do another one if BennyJ does a re-sample :)

Wow thanks a lot. Waiting for a PM :)
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: drifttothecentre on August 05, 2017, 08:53:33 PM
does anyone still have this, all links are dead
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on August 05, 2017, 08:57:01 PM
I have it but there's nothing u can do. They go offtime with vibrato. I was looking for a kontakt file but no one posted it
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on August 20, 2020, 01:10:07 PM
No one have found a way to sample or have found a sample of this dams sound? :'( can't find it anywhere :'(
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: j.fco.morales on August 21, 2020, 03:21:40 AM
Try with the Roland XV5050 vst.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on August 21, 2020, 11:54:02 AM
Try with the Roland XV5050 vst.

Actually only 5080 is available on VST but I have 3 stems with that pad and it is called Vintage Keys.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Snipes3000 on September 13, 2020, 12:57:53 AM
I did some more research on preset 15 of vintage keys plus. You can read it here: http://www.swedishsongs.de/smf/index.php?topic=3811.msg49800#msg49800
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Snipes3000 on September 13, 2020, 03:00:39 AM
Try with the Roland XV5050 vst.

Or try SRX Keyboards, category strings, preset M12 or Matrix12.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on September 16, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
Guys I'm mostly looking for VSTs/samples.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Snipes3000 on September 17, 2020, 10:06:39 AM
Both SRX Keyboards and Roland XV5080 are VSTs from Roland Cloud. But SRX Keyboards has the preset based on matrix 12. G-Force VSM also has Oberheim Xpander Strings, which is the same as the Matrix 12 strings. Korg Wavestation (VST) has pads in a similar fashion as well. And the string presets on Arturia Matrix 12 V2. And ProteusVX2 under Vintage Keys preset C3/M12 ESI.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: j.fco.morales on September 18, 2020, 04:24:17 AM
Both SRX Keyboards and Roland XV5080 are VSTs from Roland Cloud. But SRX Keyboards has the preset based on matrix 12. G-Force VSM also has Oberheim Xpander Strings, which is the same as the Matrix 12 strings. Korg Wavestation (VST) has pads in a similar fashion as well. And the string presets on Arturia Matrix 12 V2. And ProteusVX2 under Vintage Keys preset C3/M12 ESI.

And all of those are VST plugins... so  ;D
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Dagge on December 13, 2020, 08:09:07 PM
I understand those requests for particular sound but privately as a person that have been involved in the rec. industry I have listened to many stems/multitracks of famous hit songs during time and to be honest there was not a single sound appealing to me when listened solo. I remember being quite disappointed at that time. It's all in the combination of sounds and arrangements.

So you can easily substitute sound with similar from another module from the same class and it will sound almost the same.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: j.fco.morales on December 17, 2020, 06:37:33 PM
I understand those requests for particular sound but privately as a person that have been involved in the rec. industry I have listened to many stems/multitracks of famous hit songs during time and to be honest there was not a single sound appealing to me when listened solo. I remember being quite disappointed at that time. It's all in the combination of sounds and arrangements.

So you can easily substitute sound with similar from another module from the same class and it will sound almost the same.

Yep! When I listened to multitracks or stems of the songs I love I get the same feeling.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Hitmakers75 on January 19, 2021, 03:51:02 PM
Is the String Wheel preset you're talking about the one used in the intro of Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry ?
I can't listen to the samples in the thread, they're offline.

I'm really looking for this Cheiron trademark preset synth.
I've tried every preset in the JV1080 (hardware and vst version) and the SRX vst series with no luck.

It could be the E-Mu Vintage Keys. It fits the release date of this euro house hit of 1993, with the same pad in the intro :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5GmxCA9kds
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Tano87 on January 19, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Is the String Wheel preset you're talking about the one used in the intro of Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry ?
I can't listen to the samples in the thread, they're offline.

I'm really looking for this Cheiron trademark preset synth.
I've tried every preset in the JV1080 (hardware and vst version) and the SRX vst series with no luck.

It could be the E-Mu Vintage Keys. It fits the release date of this euro house hit of 1993, with the same pad in the intro :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5GmxCA9kds

This is exactly the same Vintage Keys sound included on Britney Spears multitracks for the song 3, by Max Martin.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: DennizPoP on May 05, 2021, 10:32:29 PM
Is the String Wheel preset you're talking about the one used in the intro of Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry ?
I can't listen to the samples in the thread, they're offline.

I'm really looking for this Cheiron trademark preset synth.
I've tried every preset in the JV1080 (hardware and vst version) and the SRX vst series with no luck.

It could be the E-Mu Vintage Keys. It fits the release date of this euro house hit of 1993, with the same pad in the intro :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5GmxCA9kds
You are right about the patch used in Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry.
In fact, it's used throughout the song but more noticeable during the intro, bridge and outro.

In the past couple of years I've been working with Ace of Base and Playground Music on new versions of their songs, some of them already published.
On one particular remix of this very same song I replicated the pad synth in NI Massive. I will look around my files if I still have it!

In the meantime you can hear how it sounds here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t19bf8azjnuhrky/ngsis%20nov%207.wav?dl=0


And this is an example of how it sounds in a fuller mix:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ef3qox3jmfn8j8l/ngsis-tb-remixed-v2.mp3?dl=0

(These are parts of an unreleased mix I was working on during 2017)

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: cout7 on May 13, 2021, 06:02:43 PM
With greatest respect to Rod (he is incredibly talented!) for the previous message and for showing the way, here is a way to have this preset:

This sound can be found on E-MU Keys Emulator X. Here is a great tutorial for achieving successful installation for E-MU Emulator X and obtaining the necessary libraries:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGjOjc4S5g&ab_channel=YanAnselmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGjOjc4S5g&ab_channel=YanAnselmo)

We need to get the following:
E-Mu Emulator X (the setup is available on the YouTube Video Desc.
E-Mu Experience (this allows us to have the necessary directory structure)
Vintage Keys Sound Bank

All these three is explained in detail on the YouTube link

But to obtain the sound, after following each step, you have to choose apo: CP70/M12. This preset has both Yamaha Acoustic Piano (hence the apo name) and the Matrix Strings. At this point go to "Voices and Zones" section of apo:CP70/M12.

Choose Matrix String C4 as solo and mute all other instruments

Then apply a low pass filter to this (as an example I applied FL Studio Love Filter - Low Pass 2 preset)

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: j.fco.morales on May 13, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
You are right about the patch used in Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry.
In fact, it's used throughout the song but more noticeable during the intro, bridge and outro.

In the past couple of years I've been working with Ace of Base and Playground Music on new versions of their songs, some of them already published.
On one particular remix of this very same song I replicated the pad synth in NI Massive. I will look around my files if I still have it!

In the meantime you can hear how it sounds here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t19bf8azjnuhrky/ngsis%20nov%207.wav?dl=0


And this is an example of how it sounds in a fuller mix:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ef3qox3jmfn8j8l/ngsis-tb-remixed-v2.mp3?dl=0

(These are parts of an unreleased mix I was working on during 2017)

Cheers,
Rod

Amazing work Rod!
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Dagge on June 08, 2021, 04:09:49 PM
Is the String Wheel preset you're talking about the one used in the intro of Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry ?
I can't listen to the samples in the thread, they're offline.

I'm really looking for this Cheiron trademark preset synth.
I've tried every preset in the JV1080 (hardware and vst version) and the SRX vst series with no luck.

Surprisingly enough, there is no exact sound in the whole Roland Cloud collection, together with the Korg Legacy Triton. Rol. SRX Keyboards module has some similar sounds but they are definitively not the same (and don't sit that well in the mix as the original one). Looks like sub-optimal sampling standards at the time EMU worked on their sounds is perfect for productions where 'less' sound is always better to have than full sound that takes a lot of freq spectrum.

I have tried many Roland strings for the productions that I work on from time to time, and while they sound nice alone they are almost useless during the mix. One has to strip their frequencies down in order to make space for the vocal and other mid-range instruments. At the end you get the sound that is quite far from the original and kinda lose perspective whether is it good or not. I suppose Cheiron guys had the same problems and after they found sounds that work they used them on majority of songs. It is quite a painstaking process to find sounds that actually work in the mix. No wonder all successful producers had their own signature sound. You try to avoid going thru this procedure too often.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Snipes3000 on June 08, 2021, 04:36:41 PM
I missed out on these messages of Rod and Cout till today. First of all, thanks for sharing the valuable video of working with the difficult to control Emulator X. Secondly, I concur with cout's method of obtaining the stringwheel through his method. At the same time, the sound can be recreated with a Matrix12 or something similar, considering that emu took it from that vco synth. Finally, the Emulator X has a unique filter built in which is something to be aware of. See for example the Dead Ringer filter type inside.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Snipes3000 on June 10, 2021, 12:11:16 AM
Dagge I forgot to respond. I think you make a good point by saying that one should find a few particular sounds and deal with them. The roland romplers plugins sound very outdated and recorded yeah. Hopefully you are aware of Zenology of roland as well. I think cheiron did a lot of eq'ing/filtering on the sounds to prevent the mix from drowning and also to take away that classical sound from for example strings by high cutting them. I like to scroll presets with a high cut filter or a band pass at times.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: Dagge on June 13, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
Re. 'StringWheel' sound I think it's the ChifferPad' sound located on the Vintage Synth Pro Emulator X module. Setting lo-pass filter and cutting mids a bit to lose harshness and that's it.
Title: Re: StringWheel pad?
Post by: cout7 on August 20, 2021, 07:13:16 PM
Sorry for the bump :)

I want to add to my post, the preset apo:C3/M12 ESI with low pass filter is a better match for Ace of Base's Never Gonna Say I'm Sorry, Just 'N' Image and Dr. Sun synth pads.



With greatest respect to Rod (he is incredibly talented!) for the previous message and for showing the way, here is a way to have this preset:

This sound can be found on E-MU Keys Emulator X. Here is a great tutorial for achieving successful installation for E-MU Emulator X and obtaining the necessary libraries:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGjOjc4S5g&ab_channel=YanAnselmo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGjOjc4S5g&ab_channel=YanAnselmo)

We need to get the following:
E-Mu Emulator X (the setup is available on the YouTube Video Desc.
E-Mu Experience (this allows us to have the necessary directory structure)
Vintage Keys Sound Bank

All these three is explained in detail on the YouTube link

But to obtain the sound, after following each step, you have to choose apo: CP70/M12. This preset has both Yamaha Acoustic Piano (hence the apo name) and the Matrix Strings. At this point go to "Voices and Zones" section of apo:CP70/M12.

Choose Matrix String C4 as solo and mute all other instruments

Then apply a low pass filter to this (as an example I applied FL Studio Love Filter - Low Pass 2 preset)

Hope this helps.