Author Topic: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making  (Read 7474 times)

Offline turnaround

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CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« on: June 06, 2019, 05:40:35 PM »
Obviously a CHEIRON documentary is currently being filmed. If you follow Per Magnusson on instagram - he posted a picture together with Jörgen and Jacob Schulze.


Director: Jared Raab
Camera: Adam Crosby


Very exited about this
And I liked it..

Offline j.fco.morales

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 06:44:15 PM »
Hopefully, Max will be interviewed in depth!

Offline backgammonfiend

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 08:07:24 PM »
if the tearin up my heart instrumental is not played at some point, i will be disappointed .




Offline bugmenot

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 07:55:54 PM »
There is This Is Pop Stockholm Syndrome documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1iuksElN-A-Y_NDmQpxQQA

Offline Snipes3000

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2021, 08:37:29 PM »
Part 1 of 6 seems absent in my case. P.s. thanks for sharing
Hi, I'm Luke and I'm sitting on my throne! Oh, and have you noticed that Denniz PoP songs are extremely hooky?

Offline *Sabine*

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2021, 09:59:38 PM »
The whole documentary is on Vimeo, enjoy family!!  :-*
https://vimeo.com/537505997

Offline turnaround

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2021, 12:33:22 AM »
Oh wow, Thank you. I really forgot they did it.
And I liked it..

Offline callthatchangedmydestiny

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2021, 09:16:03 AM »
Thank you for the link to the This Is Pop documentary!! I haven't seen it, but I love the BBC's "Flat Pack Pop: Sweden's Music Miracle" and I show it to all my friends who don't know about the genius of Cheiron and Max. I love how they weave through the rise of Cheiron and the cultural/economic factors to its success. Here's the link if anyone hasn't seen it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVEH19-ts_c&t=1657s

Offline Dagge

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2021, 12:28:30 AM »
I really don't want to spoil the party, after all I'm too Cheiron fan but I humbly think all this hype has been gone too far. In essence, things with Cheiron success are actually quite simple to understand.

It starts with Suedes being above average intelligent folks, you cannot make a good production if you are not above avarage intelligent. Then add (very) high work ethics, some melancholy (people love minor keys) and you are ready to be above average in this business, because frankly standards weren't very high. For a long time before Cheiron era composers and producers weren't very methodic or picky when building songs. Suedes were first to make a sort of science of it, of course, it started with ABBA.  Picking carefully every sound, every melody. They always tried harder than their US or UK counterparts which approached it more laid back, artistic way. Bjorn Ulvaeus talked exactly about that. In U.S., maybe Quincy Jones and Bruce Swedien made similar approach with Michael Jackson, the list is short.

The story goes on when Denniz produced Ace of Base, an act he didn't recognize as a lucrative one immediately, and it happens to matched the taste of US public at that time, just like Aqua did. To be frank both cases were pure luck because even ABBA with their sophisticated songs didn't make it to the US. Then Max came as a guy that knew more about music than others at Cheiron (and they knew little), and Max happen to be a workaholic, intelligent, meticulous guy with a great talent for melodies, and the rest is the history. Being in the right time at the right place, with the right connections, and having above-average talent for melodies constructing (not composing), Max was one lucky guy. Besides Max, there weren't many of them with such a combination of luck, talent, and connections. Maybe Rami and Cristian. Rami not being natural Suede it happens to be two or three Suedes that made big success 20 years after ABBA. So it definitely isn't 'something in the water' there :)

Now we have a funny situation where others try to mimic Suedes (which is impossible) instead of using Suedes' approach to do their own stuff. Suedes usually mimic others, which now try to mimic Suedes, go figure. I actually always wonder how nobody else didn't come to the idea of doing what Suedes did, to make the music-making process more sophisticated. The world is full of sophisticated businesses (actually much more than music is), yet nobody came to the idea of doing it in music. Hats down to Suedes, but don't make a hype out of it.

P.S.I really appreciate Suedes, not for their music but for what they are on average.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 12:55:24 AM by Dagge »

Offline Snipes3000

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2021, 01:48:15 AM »
Swedes were not necessarily the first to make a science of it, considering that great artists always had a drive to master their craft and had characteristics of perfectionism (R. Greene 2012, Mastery). People who are on top of the 'pyramid of Maslow' have much more opportunities to reach perfectionism, than those on the bottom of the pyramid. Something that contributed to the success factor in Sweden was the free music education (O. Johansson 2020, Songs from Sweden). The success of the Swedes has more to do with their infrastructure of music than with being above average intelligent (O. Johansson 2020, Songs from Sweden).

If you want to explain Cheiron success or the success of Swedes overall, I want to suggest to you to get informed properly. There is a scholarly work by O. Johansson (cited above), who actually did full time research on the question you are trying to touch upon here. If you haven't read that book yet, you have not been informed properly, because it is a landmark research report on this specific question. "No truth so sublime, but it may be trivial tomorrow in the light of new thoughts".

P.s. Johansson is also in the documentary.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 01:54:18 AM by Snipes3000 »
Hi, I'm Luke and I'm sitting on my throne! Oh, and have you noticed that Denniz PoP songs are extremely hooky?

Offline Dagge

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2021, 09:58:31 AM »
There is another book, written by Dr Nassim Taleb where he states that you can never trust books written by the successful people about their own success becasue they regularly fail to recognize favorable circumstances that made them successful, thinking it's all result of their effort and method.

By having genuine respect for the author you mentioned, I subjectively think this success could be more realistically evaluated from the distance than by standing in the epicentre. Re. free education as a source of Swedish music success, by being raised in the SE Europe where free music education was offered for the last 80 years and nothing happened, I personally don't believe it to be the key factor although it surely helps. It has more to do with why H&M, Ikea or Swedish startups are above average successful. Take, intelligent people that love analyzing others' cultures, give them time and circumstances where they don't need to fight for their everyday survival and you can be pretty sure some interesting things will happen. That's why I love Suedes, and music is only a part of this.

As a conslusion since I am aware of Cheiron guys probably longer than Britney is, and being totally compatible with their way of thinking I humbly think I can conclude a thing or two about their success. With respect

Offline Snipes3000

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2021, 12:30:04 PM »
-Right. Free music education is not the key, but it is one among the factors.
-You may make conclusions, but I find your conclusions lacking in sufficiency and on the surface.
-Speaking of favourable circumstances, you have probably opened your mouth before you took full note of my comment, in particular with regard to the concept of the 'pyramid of Maslow'. It has everything to do with favourable circumstances. I'm certain that Taleb also refers to that concept in his publications.
-Dagge I know you, and I have seen in our PM's how ignorant you can be of taking into account new perspectives and I have a high suspicion that you will never read Johansson's book. But still I responded to you, because I hope that you will genuinely study the book and then come back here with a revised conclusion. Hopefully you'll respond to my hope in the affirmative (fingers crossed).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 12:42:40 PM by Snipes3000 »
Hi, I'm Luke and I'm sitting on my throne! Oh, and have you noticed that Denniz PoP songs are extremely hooky?

Offline Dagge

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2021, 02:06:07 PM »
You may be right, yet  I see you love to make things more complicated than they actually are. In life, simplicity beats complications the majority of the time. After all, it all boils down to building 8 bars of a strong chorus melody, no need to involve Maslow in that :) Either you have it or you don't. Everything else in this topic is dependent on that simple fact. You may have a conservatory and not be able to build a strong melody. And you may have no clue about notes and build world-class melodies (as is the case with many hitmakers). People who have it make hits, and some people that don't have it try to overcomplicate in order to compensate for their lack of skill. I'm neither hitmaker nor do I try to compensate for lack of skill trying to make it appear more complicated than it is. So, if it weren't '8 bars of a strong melody' thing, there would be no Cheiron saga, no books and this forum. Let's stay realistic

You may also make a short summary of conclusions from your mentioned book. Let's hear it. Then I may decide to read the book if I find something new that am not aware of. Actually, I would be glad to find it and be positively surprised. After all, with all due respect, this book actually describes the success of a couple of Suedes. That looks like a too-small statistical sample to be able to make broad conclusions based on it. Of course, I may be wrong. Respect
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 02:22:21 PM by Dagge »

Offline Snipes3000

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2021, 04:16:06 PM »
A few quotes:
1. 'Do not talk about giftedness, inborn talents! One can name great men of all kinds who were very little gifted. They acquired greatness, became 'geniuses' (as we put it), through qualities the lack of which no one who knew what they were would boast of: they all pos­sessed that seriousness of the efficient workman which first learns to con­struct the parts properly before it ventures to fashion a great whole; they allowed themselves time for it, because they took more pleasure in making the little, secondary things well than in the effect of a dazzling whole' (Nietzsche 1878, Human, All Too Human: A Book for Free Spirits).
2. 'Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.' (Steve Jobs 1998, interview with Business Week)
3. 'The difference between talent and genius is in the direction of the current: in genius, it is from within outward; in talent from without inward.' (Ralph Waldo Emerson, Essays)

I am aware of your occupation, so I will take your comments about the quality of the scholarly work of Johansson for granted. Have a look https://www.amazon.se/Ola-Johansson/dp/9811527350

« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 04:19:32 PM by Snipes3000 »
Hi, I'm Luke and I'm sitting on my throne! Oh, and have you noticed that Denniz PoP songs are extremely hooky?

Offline Dagge

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Re: CHEIRON documentary on Netflix in the making
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2021, 05:45:17 PM »
Thanks, all very valid statements but I do not see how this could explain Cheiron success. With all due respect, how someone be it a professor emeritus or a worker could explain the inner thought process that a CD salesman turned into a melody genius. After all theory is dissected, always come sentence 'show me your work' or 'show me how to do it based on your analysis'. If you cannot mimic it, looks like your analysis isn't complete (at least). Ofcourse I have never found such a book and I am not sure even this one will reveal it. But as a reference for understanding the broader scope, I am sure it is worth reading.

After many books and dissertations were written about how did the guys from ABBA do it, Benny once said simply 'I do not know, we just worked until we weren't satisfied'. No books needed to find out about this.

Now we are a bit off topic. My theory is still the same, it all boils down to the 8 (or even 4) bars of a chorus melody. A book with one sentence. Do this properly and books will be written about you. Respect, for Max and all :)