Hi All, my name is Scott Cairns, Im a songwriter based in Australia. Ive chatted to Rebecca a few times by email (lovely person!) and found this forum via her Max Martin website.
I stumbled across this producer/songwriter tonight; Toby Gad - he's German and now based in New York.
He co-wrote Big Girls Dont Cry with Fergie. He's also writing some stuff with The Veronica's according to his site. www.tobygad.com (http://www.tobygad.com)
Great forum you have here! Ive learnt a lot about the various writers reading the posts.
Cheers,
Scott.
Hey Scott, welcome to the boards.
Great you're a songwriter, always nice to have people on here from the industry too.
I've read the name Toby Gad a few times already, especially when looking at the "Big girls don't cry" credits. Worldwide hit for him and Fergie.
Yes I knew he has written with the Veronicas.
What's new to me is that he is Germany, didn't expect that, sadly noone knows him here.
Can we listen to stuff you did Scott, would be interesting.
hi scott,i wish u tell us what steps should person take to be a music producer
Welcome here
Welcome Scott - great to see you here!
I've seen that name Toby Gad but never seen much about him.
Big Girls Don't Cry was a massive hit
Yes, feel free to let us hear any of your demo's Scott
Thanks for the welcome everyone. I promise to post some demos here very soon, I've only recently returned to my songwriting after a lengthy break. Ive been making a living in computer game audio for the last few years now. But Im actively writing and recording material at the moment, and will be looking to get placements with artists in the near future.
Ahmed - in terms of learning the skills to become a producer; this can usually be done in a couple of ways. One way is to have a 'technical' background, i.e. starting out as a recording engineer and really knowing your way around the studio (recording, micing instruments, editing, midi programming etc). The other way is to come from a musical background, becoming proficient in a few instruments and learning the technology as much as possible. Either approach will have a lot of crossover, one of my friends here in Australia is a gifted guitarist, he also learnt how to record his own material and works full time as an engineer.
What all this leads toward though, is producing (regardless of which background you come from). A producer needs to have a creative vision for the music and know how to put that into play. For example, a band might want you to produce them and they list their favourite influence as U2. As a producer, you need to have some sort of knowledge as to how U2 achieve their sound; what guitars do they play? What amps do they use? If they're using synths - which synths? Does Edge have any unusual tunings on his guitar to achieve his sound?
Reading a lot of studio 'how to' articles is really helpful for this. The same with subscribing to a recording magazine of some sort and reading the articles in that. Keep notes on the things you learn, perhaps a trick you read about to achieve a vocal sound.
The U2 example is a rough one, and deals mainly with achieving a particular sound. Mostly though, a producer needs to have an idea for how their band/artist should sound and he/she also needs to be mindful of the target audience - making sure the song structures adhere to a radio friendly format if the artist intends to achieve airplay.
A couple of things I see producers commonly deal with;
- getting players to play properly in the studio. For example, the drummer needs to be tight, not play too many fills, and needs to support the song. A lot of drummers that play live all the time, can have a tendency to be a little messy in their playing. Bass players also need to tighten up and follow the kick drum.
An individuals playing style really comes into scrutiny in the studio.
- the other is song structure; It might be ok for a live version of the band favourite song to run over 5 minutes or more, but if its intended for commercial radio, that structure needs to be hammered down into roughly 3:30 - 4:00
Lastly, a producer needs to trust their ears. Is a guitar part clashing with the lead vocals? The guitarist might need to play different chord inversions to stay out of the way of the vocal line. Does the song need a big vocal sound in the chorus? As the producer, you might be the one that has to work out what vocal harmonies are needed, and how many vocal parts are required to achieve the sound.
Wow, looks like I rambled on a bit. :) Thats all I can think of right now, please feel free to ask any other questions.
Regards,
Scott.
Wow, this was a very good read.
Music for games sounds exciting. I am not a gamer but I am sure it is challenging and interesting.
And you obviously get to see all the stuff long before the release. ;D
Great to hear you are returning to songwriting, it must be great to have the skills and the equipment to test your ideas and create great songs. Will be very interesting to hear. Are you thinking about going into the pop directions?
Where are your musical roots?
Definitely you have to keep us updated! :)
Hey Turnaround, yes its really nice to return to my true passion - songwriting. Game Audio is fun, (better than digging holes for a living!) - but not where my heart truly lies.
Certainly it is nice to have the equipment now to be able to realise a song - years back it meant saving for studio time.
My musical roots are varied, Ive always said that I love any really well written song whether its Kylie Minogue, or Billy Ray Cyrus! :D
Seriously though, just as this forum shows us the people behind the scenes crafting the songs - I wont discount a song just because a certain artist released it. Often looking at the writing credits reveals someone I have a lot of respect for as a writer.
The material Im working on now probably falls into pop/rock.
I promise to post some demos here soon as its always great to get feedback. I have some plans to place my material with artists in the coming year, hopefully I'll be able to report my success stories here. 8)
wow its a really hard and long process,but thanks for sharing ur knowledge with us.
but u know there is different kind of producers for different genres,i 'm amazed by Max Martin work with Britney Spears and backstreet boys,does that kind of max work is hard? it was very beautiful musical style,special, and unique,it mixed the dance up tempo beats with the good sweet melody and instrumentation,not like other dance songs which focus only on the beat and neglect the melody and the instrumentals.
there is also hip hop and rap producers ,and the music they made seems a little bit simple to me,its like dom dom tak....dom tak something like that,and there is no many background music,its all about the beat,does that kind of producers has to have the knowledge u mentioned?
and what about electronic and techno producers,do they have to know those things?
and finally,
is it neccessary for a music producer to play many musical instruments?,so i can use a certain music instrument in a song and use another in another song,or maybe more than one in one song
,or thats computer generated?
is there a video tutorial for how to produce music?
thanks again for ur help :)
Quote from: Scott Martin :) on November 03, 2007, 02:10:55 AM
I promise to post some demos here soon as its always great to get feedback. I have some plans to place my material with artists in the coming year, hopefully I'll be able to report my success stories here. 8)
Crossing my fingers for you.
If you need any feedback we are the right bunch of guys, no doubt. ;)
welcome scott!!
Quote from: ahmed on November 03, 2007, 04:53:45 PM
there is also hip hop and rap producers ,and the music they made seems a little bit simple to me,its like dom dom tak....dom tak something like that,and there is no many background music,its all about the beat,does that kind of producers has to have the knowledge u mentioned?
Hi Ahmed, a producer really needs to be proficient and knowledgeable in the styles in which they work. Which is why its fairly rare to see a hip hop producer go and produce a country record. :)
Quote from: ahmed on November 03, 2007, 04:53:45 PM
and what about electronic and techno producers,do they have to know those things?
Well again, they really have to know how to achieve that
sound.In truth, anyone can call themselves a producer. What makes a great producer (in my opinion) is one that knows what sound they need for their artist and how to get it. The other equally important skill is in fine-tuning the songs - making them radio friendly. This is probably why so many great producers are also songwriters.
Quote from: ahmed on November 03, 2007, 04:53:45 PMand finally,
is it neccessary for a music producer to play many musical instruments?,so i can use a certain music instrument in a song and use another in another song,or maybe more than one in one song
,or thats computer generated?
Strictly speaking you dont need to play an instrument. Just as many recording engineers arent necessarily musical, they just know what sounds good and what doesnt.
Quote from: ahmed on November 03, 2007, 04:53:45 PM
is there a video tutorial for how to produce music?
Not that I know of, there are some YouTube clips on producers at work in the studio. My advice would be to offer to produce people for free initially. Listen to their music, but really pay attention to the sound they would like to have; ask them to list favourite albums or songs that have a particular sound they'd like to achieve. Remember too, that generally someone else will engineer a session (record instruments, operate the gear etc), and on sessions with a decent budget, someone else will come in and mix the material too. Your main job as a producer is to pick the instrumentation for the song and to make decisions on what instrument should play when. For example, is the verse sounding a bit thick and muddy? Perhaps one of the guitar parts can be cut and then saved to come back in during the chorus. Surprisingly, these decisions are very simple by asking basic questions; if something doesnt sound right - why doesnt it? Are there too many instruments competing in the overall mix? The bridge sounds a little flat - does it need an extra part? Perhaps a synth track?
To me, great production skills are what I mentioned above - knowing how to fine-tune a song to make it more effective, and how to achieve the sound you want.
Quote from: ahmed on November 03, 2007, 04:53:45 PM
thanks again for ur help :)
You're welcome. ;)
thank u so much scott,these information are helpful :)
its the first time i know the importance of the sound engineer,but as far as i know the sound engineer in many songs is another person not the producer,
i thought the sound engineer job is about how to fix things to make the sound clear and stuff like that.
and i think most of the producer mix the song by themselves.
and u said that its not necessary for a producer to play any music instrument...that means if there is acoustic guitar sound on a song or piano sound,does the producer need help from guitar player or piano player to play this music or what?
i always see producer sitting on the mixer keyboard in the studio,while the singer is recording the song..what is the producer job in that case?
do u think programs like FL studio and learning to make music on computer using it will be helpful as a first step as an amateur?
thank u very much for sharing ur knowledge :)...and sorry for asking so many questions
Definitely! Anything that helps you to make sound, and teaches you in the process is a good thing. Remember too, the gear the Cheiron guys had in the 80s is pretty basic by todays standards. (If that is roughly the sound you're going for)
If you're interested Ahmed, I'll do a break down of a song written by Max Martin in the next few days. Ill attempt to describe what they are doing with the overall song structure, instrumentation and mix.
Regards,
Scott.
[quote author=Scott Martin :)
If you're interested Ahmed, I'll do a break down of a song written by Max Martin in the next few days. Ill attempt to describe what they are doing with the overall song structure, instrumentation and mix.
Regards,
Scott.
[/quote]
I'm interested in that too Scott, that would be great, when you have time.
hey scott,i added questions in the last post probably in the same time when u answered to it ..can u please read them and answer? :)
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
thank u so much scott,these information are helpful :)
You're welcome.
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
its the first time i know the importance of the sound engineer,but as far as i know the sound engineer in many songs is another person not the producer,
This is generally true, I was just mentioning that some Producers come from an engineering background. (they start out their career this way and move into record production)
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
i thought the sound engineer job is about how to fix things to make the sound clear and stuff like that.
Yes and no. In smaller studios, the engineer will generally operate all the gear, record each player/singer AND mix the song at the end. In larger budget projects, there are often guys who specialise in mixing alone. (actually referred to as Mix Engineers, so yes its very close.)[/quote]
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
and i think most of the producer mix the song by themselves.
Some certainly do. I believe from what Ive read of Max, that he produces and mixes down the song. I could be wrong though.
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
and u said that its not necessary for a producer to play any music instrument...that means if there is acoustic guitar sound on a song or piano sound,does the producer need help from guitar player or piano player to play this music or what?
Definitely, this actually touches on the heart of being a producer - he
directs the musician in
how he'd like the part played. Just like a film director wont often shoot their own film, they'll give clear directions to their camera operators on what angles to shoot and in what style to do so.
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AMi always see producer sitting on the mixer keyboard in the studio,while the singer is recording the song..what is the producer job in that case?
More than likely he's sitting their as he's getting the best sound from the speakers. :) Its true actually, the control room is designed for the best listening position on near-field speakers to be right smack in the middle of the mixing desk. Ive been to many studio sessions where I didnt touch a single thing on the desk, but I still sat right next to the engineer, listened to the music, and told him what I wanted.
Quote from: ahmed on November 05, 2007, 02:10:12 AM
thank u very much for sharing ur knowledge :)...and sorry for asking so many questions
You're very welcome, and dont be sorry! ;)
Ahmed, you were asking about Producer videos, I found a great site here;
www.recordproduction.com (http://www.recordproduction.com) There's about 130 producer videos on the site.
Also, there's a great explanation of what a producer does on wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_producer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_producer)
Cheers,
Scott.
Hi scott welcome to the forum!
thank u so much scott :)
what about the synthesizer?....all i know about it in the studio that it produces different musical instruments sounds...what is its main role in the studio?
and who play on it ?the producer or mixer or sound engineer?
Hi Ahmed, it depends on the style of music as to what role a synth will have. For example, a song like 'Since you've Been Gone' is essentially a pop/rock track centering around drums and guitars. I havent had a close listen to that track lately, but if there are any synth parts at all in that song, they are likely to be small background parts to help fill it out.
Some of the Back Street Boys songs are almost entirely synth - or the guitars might take a background role.
'Hook Me Up' by the Veronica's has a synth bass playing right through it along with guitars and drums.
Synths are very versatile instruments, so the job they have in different songs, varies enormously.
Usually the parts are programmed ahead of time via midi; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI)
This saves money on studio time by writing the parts before you start paying by the hour. :)
But sometimes an idea comes up for a synth line during the production of the song, in this case, it might be one of the band members, or the producer himself that plays it.
ok thanks scott :)
This is an extremely interesting thread I just discovered. Scott Martin, it's such a pleasure to read your answers. If you have some material to make us listen to, don't be afraid to post it!
Hi Sabine (and hi again to Rebecca, Turnaround, Ahmed etc!)
Sorry for the long absence, my wife and i had twin boys in the last year and its certainly turned our lives upside-down! (in a good way!)
This if course, has put my songwriting schedule back, but the good news is, I have two tracks nearing completion. I PROMISE to post them here when Im done.
Really nice, can't wait!
Take care of your little boys! ;)
Hi Scott, congratulations on your twin boys!
oh, that's great you have 2 tracks nearly finished, looking forward to hearing them too!