www.maratone.se

[malcolm hogg]

this is a really heated interesting debate isn't it! I had no idea that the closure of cheiron was because max didn't want to split any further payments with denniz's widow. That is interesting.
I would really like to see a good in depth biography written about all of cheiron, from start until now. Perhaps then we might be able to say with some degree of certainty what all of the internal wranglings and politics really were like, and indeed who contributed how much to each project.
I always refere to cheiron or max, but i find it easier that way. Perhaps we should refer to all of those guys as 'the collective'???
It is interesting to hear everyones views. I personally have no allegiance to any of 'the collective', but because of the press that was given to him at the time find it natural to assume that max was and in a way kind of still is the leader of the pack.
I don't know who played the bigger role in the more recent rockier stuff. But one thing that i am left wondering is.... if max isn't as good a rock producer as he is a pop producer, and bearing in mind that it has been said on this forum that he closed cheiron because of business reasons (didn't want to split money with Mrs pop), then why on earth would he not make the most of every business opportunity that came his way, ie why didn't he work with the BSB's oh their forthcoming album?
Hit's, i was wondering how you know that this was infact the reason that cheiron closed?
I also wonder if anyone else has any idea how the whole financing of cheiron (or any production company) works.
I was always led to believe that each producer is paid a production fee (they charge what they want) for each track. And then the royalties are an entirely seperate residual entity.
Indeed does anyone know what cheiron or maratone charged per track? Bearing in mind that during the heyday, anything they made was virtually a guaruntedd hit, i think they must have charged $350 000, to $500 000 per song.
Anone enlighten us?

[turnaround]

I did a little online interview with Savan and that's what he told me:
Summarised and roughly translated back to English as I don't have much time right now.


Question: "Imagine you have a track released on a 10-track album. How many would you earn in this case, if it sells 1 000 000 copies. And which percentage does a songwriter get normally.

Savan:
Different countries have different regulations for that. But I experienced that you only get 70 % of the money I thought I was entitled with.
I don't know a exact formula but out of my experience I can say, if a song is released on a million seller in the US it is worth 70.000 $ of mechanical royalities.
If you have written 33 % of the song you get 23.100 $. Then the publisher will take it's part. I know there is a fix formula how much you get for a song in the US, but I have to admit I don't know it.
But 70.000 $ for a song on a album is pretty close to it.


BTW: He also said that it's always fair divided. The one who worked most on the song gets most...

[Rebecca]

But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we !? Everything Max did on his own (eg, Nick) wasnt a hit. Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway. Pink, Kelly, Marion, Veronicas - all of the real rock smashes Max did were co-written by Lukasz.

Wow, this is a very interesting and heated discussion!
Regarding Bon Jovi It's My Life, Bon Jovi unfairly downplayed Max's role in the writing of that song saying he only gave Max credit because he was in the room at the time (there have been articles on this). I have heard from a pretty good source that Max was singing on the demo and Per Aldeheim played the guitar. If you listen to it the song is typical Max Martin style, to me sounds like BSB's Don't Want You Back.

As for Lukasz being responsible for Pink/Kelly/Veronicas etc, I would like to know where you get that idea from (other than the credits)? have you read that in any interviews with Dr Luke? i'm very curious to know this.

As for Cheiron being closed down, I too read somewhere (perhaps in a Fox News report?) years ago and it said Max closed Cheiron down re he didn't want to pay out Denniz's wife - I didn't pay too much attention to it, figured the songwriters would have made more than enough money to not worry about that.
I read in an interview (on www.hitquarters.com - you have to pay $15 USD to become a member and then you can check out interviews, i recommend it, I didn't put this on my site cos i didn't want to steal it) with Kristian Lundin, he said that it didn't feel right to keep going with Cheiron after the death of Denniz Pop, they just had to fulfill committments to record companies (i believe they had a 5 yr contract with Jive which would have finished mid 2000) - which seemed more believable to me.

[hits]

Take a look at the CDs you own, moron. It's on them. If Max would've written most of each song, his name would have been listed FIRST and NOT SECOND!

And you of course know that the order of the names means who has done the most of the writing/producing? *lol* Sure.

Of course, the person who is listed first did most of the writing. That's a fact, a rule. I work in the music industry. But usually fans also know this stuff.

And about Cheiron closing down. First of all I know this for a fact, how I know doesnt matter. This is also all over the net, accessible to everyone who does a little bit of research. Of course Max fans dont want to admit that he closed Cheiron because he didnt want to split money with Denniz's wife anymore, but its the truth. If you think he doesnt care about money anymore since he's already rich, then you're fooling yourselves. Most of you are rich, considered by international standards. You all have a roof over your head, you even own computers and most likely cars. But does that mean that you just would give away half of your salary? No, you'd want to keep as much of your money as you could. And the same applies to people who have a lot of money. You dont give away cash just cause you already have a decent amount of money. That'd be insane, no matter how rich you are.

How do production companies finance themselves. First, they charge per track. Big producers can charge anything between 100-500k, maybe even more. And then they get publishing and performance royalties (everytime their song gets played on the radio, performed live, etc) and they get points on each record they produce. 1 point usually stands for $0.10, and big producers get A LOT of points.

I will refrain from posting in this forum from now on, since my input is obviously not appreciated. You'd rather keep your fantasies about what a god Max is, instead of analyzing and figuring out who he really is. To me that's what a real fan would do, not worshiping him like a god.

[hits]

But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we !? Everything Max did on his own (eg, Nick) wasnt a hit. Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway. Pink, Kelly, Marion, Veronicas - all of the real rock smashes Max did were co-written by Lukasz.

Wow, this is a very interesting and heated discussion!
Regarding Bon Jovi It's My Life, Bon Jovi unfairly downplayed Max's role in the writing of that song saying he only gave Max credit because he was in the room at the time (there have been articles on this). I have heard from a pretty good source that Max was singing on the demo and Per Aldeheim played the guitar. If you listen to it the song is typical Max Martin style, to me sounds like BSB's Don't Want You Back.

As for Lukasz being responsible for Pink/Kelly/Veronicas etc, I would like to know where you get that idea from (other than the credits)? have you read that in any interviews with Dr Luke? i'm very curious to know this.

As for Cheiron being closed down, I too read somewhere (perhaps in a Fox News report?) years ago and it said Max closed Cheiron down re he didn't want to pay out Denniz's wife - I didn't pay too much attention to it, figured the songwriters would have made more than enough money to not worry about that.
I read in an interview (on www.hitquarters.com - you have to pay $15 USD to become a member and then you can check out interviews, i recommend it, I didn't put this on my site cos i didn't want to steal it) with Kristian Lundin, he said that it didn't feel right to keep going with Cheiron after the death of Denniz Pop, they just had to fulfill committments to record companies (i believe they had a 5 yr contract with Jive which would have finished mid 2000) - which seemed more believable to me.

Just saw your reply, you're being nice, so I will make a comment for a last time.

Again, Cheiron closed because max didnt want to split money anymore, but not only him, also the other songwriters. The whole "it just didnt felt right anymore" is the official statement. I mean they couldnt just say "We dont want to pay Denniz's wife half of what we make anymore, so we're closing the studio and starting our own", could they? No. Cheiron had such a big name, it was a brand like the name Backstreet Boys or Britney Spears. Nobody changes their name for no reason, especially if it's a huge brand and people identify a lot of success with it.

I'm not sure about Bon Jovi, I dont know who did most of the writing there but I am sure about all Kelly, Veronicas and Pink songs. How I know doesnt matter, I work in the European music industry and this is well know. That's why Avril did only work with Luke on her new album. You will see more of this, Luke working solo, without Max. There is a reason for this. And dont be silly, these guys arent working together because they're close friends. There are other dynamics and reasons involved here. Lukasz is from New York City, Max from Stockholm. I will let you guys figure everything out by yourself, but I will give you a hint. Look at what Max did for the 3 years before he started working with Lukasz. Analyze this and you will maybe figure out what's up, assuming you got some brains.

[Rebecca]

I will refrain from posting in this forum from now on, since my input is obviously not appreciated. You'd rather keep your fantasies about what a god Max is, instead of analyzing and figuring out who he really is. To me that's what a real fan would do, not worshiping him like a god.

Personally I don't analyse and try to figure out who Max is, I really just love the songs and that's why I'm a fan, I understand that I don't really know anything about him and that's fine to me, I'm just always looking forward to the songs.

So, even if it's true re Max closing down the studio re money - thought I don't know how closing down a studio would mean not giving Denniz's wife any money, surely he would have had to pay her out her share. Nevertheless, I don't know the details and I don't care. Yep, I understand that even wealthy people still won't give away their money and I have no problem with that, if they've earnt it, they deserve it - I'd do the same, but I just prefer to focus on the songs (whoever Max wrote them with).

Hits, you're more than welcome to continue to post in the forum, I'm all for any sort of discussion, up to you.

[Rebecca]

You know, I'm just thinking about the Cheiron closing down thing, and well, if it was to stop paying Denniz's wife money, then so what? I don't want to be disrespectful to Mrs Pop, but if she has nothing to do with writing or producing why should she continue to earn money from Cheiron? Why is that such a bad thing for the songwriters to do anyway? I'm thinking that she would have been left quite a lot of money from Denniz anyway, and would still receive royalties from songs he co-wrote (assuming he left that to her). so big deal. apologies if anyone thinks I'm being too harsh on poor Mrs Denniz Pop.

[hits]

You know, I'm just thinking about the Cheiron closing down thing, and well, if it was to stop paying Denniz's wife money, then so what? I don't want to be disrespectful to Mrs Pop, but if she has nothing to do with writing or producing why should she continue to earn money from Cheiron? Why is that such a bad thing for the songwriters to do anyway? I'm thinking that she would have been left quite a lot of money from Denniz anyway, and would still receive royalties from songs he co-wrote (assuming he left that to her). so big deal. apologies if anyone thinks I'm being too harsh on poor Mrs Denniz Pop.

I agree. I just brought it up because I mentioned money, just to show some of the fanatic fans on here that Max wouldnt work with Luke if he wouldnt have to or need him.

[Rebecca]

No problem hits- it's fine to have another perspective on things - and you're still here!
Re the Dr Luke thing, obviously I don't know what happens in a studio, who writes exactly what, true Max usually has to write with other guitarists to have the rock song sound, eg Per Aldeheim re Nick, Lambretta songs as well as Dr Luke. But no matter what style of song, the Max Martin co-written songs just grab me more than other songs (i'm still a fanatic!).

[NIKLAS"NiCkY"]

Hello people out there!

I dont understand max cant write rock without luke? OK People who said this cant be serious....Max Martin is Rock.....listen to the songs its a little rock in every song , ok not in every but almost that he write.

I think all this is strange....One thing, what would music be without Max and the other cheiron guys? who is luke without max....sorry not the hits witout max...Max are the HITS the number one

[Rebecca]

Hello people out there!

I dont understand max cant write rock without luke? OK People who said this cant be serious....Max Martin is Rock.....listen to the songs its a little rock in every song , ok not in every but almost that he write.

I think all this is strange....One thing, what would music be without Max and the other cheiron guys? who is luke without max....sorry not the hits witout max...Max are the HITS the number one

I agree: what would music be without Max? i don't even want to imagine, music would be very dull and true there is rock in quite a few BSB songs like Larger Than Life, even The Call etc, even some Britney songs, the list goes on.

[®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ]

First of all I know this for a fact, how I know doesnt matter.

:roll:

[Alex Martin]

QUESTION        

If luke is the mind of the rock songs he co-write with max.....why all these songs are very very similat to BIMBO by Lambretta wrote by max???    

[Alex Martin]

Just an example......LIE...IT'S ALL RIGHT  by Bo Bice co wrote by Max and Luke is very very very very similar to BIMBO by Lambretta    

[NIKLAS"NiCkY"]

Hello people out there!


And all this talk about money and luke, Whats wrong??? HITS WROTE"""" Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway"". Bon Jovi was down and out, he came back because of max martin hit its my life...he have realesed album after that ...do you "hits" find more nr1 hits after its my life??? ok everyday was a little hit "andreas carlsson and cherion sound....Do you think these big stars think its funny to work with andreas, max and more?? No they need to.....


The answer to all this have max himself, and cherion was what it was...
and they can do Rock And Pop......