Just out of curiosity, it has been said that on average Max and ex-team spend a week on average to finish a new song. If we take into account that three days may be spent on arrangements, recording, and mixing, they on average spend two days to coin melody, chords, and lyrics. To me, it sounds like a really short time to build a hit melody almost every time. I mean, you have to wait for inspiration, you may have a bad day, not every melody of yours is above average etc.
I wonder how Max managed to have this new song every week schedule for decades. I mean, even if you do some mechanical work you may feel fatigued. I really think there is some 'helping' habit to make this possible. Either they listen to other songs for inspiration and try to 'borrow' interesting phrases adding their own creativity. Or similar. With all respect, I simply don't believe that Max and gang coin melodies out of his/their head all the time. I may be wrong but the evidence is showing this to be nearly impossible without using some proven technique outside of inner inspiration (besides melody math).
Whether you are an artist, painter, composer or a writer, you cannot be a creative genius for 20 years. Either you have s smaller period of super creativity, or you find some helping technique that you can use all the time.
They start track first and that is usually made using a reference song. From that point, it is not as difficult to write hooks. There is some evidence to support that they likely also reference melodies from their own previous songs and other songs. There is no perfect formula that they use to write, but rather a toolbox to "fix" melodic ideas that they came up with or borrowed.
Every time is different: sometimes labels ask for songs for an artists, sometimes people have an idea before a session -like Taylor Swift- and sometimes they come empty handed.
I think the Wolf Cousins work every day making tracks and they pitch those. Taylor said he heard Ali Payami programming "Style" in a small studio and wanted to record something over the track.
In terms of how long it takes to get the songs done, I think it all depends on which instrumentation is recorded and which is not. Often you have you "go to session player", you send the idea or meet with the musician and get the things done quickly. I have a friend who usually writes one day, arranges other and records the third day. He writes complex string and brass arrangements so he books one day to record each thing of every production he would be working at the moment.
When you need to record ensembles that sh*t is expensive and you have to make it quick. Basically one day to record drums, one day for guitar and bass guitar, one day for strings or brass and last day for vocals. He could be working on maybe, 5 songs a week.
First of all. These people don't write a hit song a week every year. How many releases have Max had any given year? At most around 10 maybe when he was particularly involved in an album.
Most of the time there are 4 writers or more, at least 3. Really good ones! It doesnt take more than a couple of hours to write a song start to finish when collaborating. The rest is tweaking. Same goes for production. People tend to start production while writing and a top class producer Will have the bulk of the song done in a day. Then you can focus on individual sounds, live recordings and such.
That they start with tracks is not at all true. More so today, but for most of Max's career its been the other way around. Its probably 60/40 in favor of writing first. It would be almost impossible to taylor the song and sound to the specific artist otherwise. Production ideas is another thing. A drum groove or a synth sound. For inspiration.
But yeah, its probably important to note that not all songs these people write are good. A lot of it has to suck. It's just that we don't get to hear it!
@AlexanderLaBrea interesting. Re. melodies writing, can you technically explain the difference between 'getting an idea from the head' and 'listening to the already published hit song' to get inspiration (or to borrow melodic phrase). Why would the first method be considered as creative and the second one as trying to copy other's work?
When we get an idea 'from the head', this idea is actually a more or less distant memory of some song that we heard before. There is no such thing as creating a completely new, never heard melody out of tiny air. It always comes as a derivative of the former melody that we have heard.
So, what is the difference. Why is one considered a creative process and another one may be closer to a plagiarism attempt.
Quote from: Dagge on December 20, 2020, 04:55:10 PM
So, what is the difference. Why is one considered a creative process and another one may be closer to a plagiarism attempt.
There's no actual difference in the end result but I suppose the intention is different.
Quote from: ModernJohn on December 20, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
There's no actual difference in the end result but I suppose the intention is different.
You are right to some extent, but I suppose all hit writers/producers are above average intelligent and I am sure they understood this already to be almost the same. I don't think they are that naive to believe that their ideas come out of nowhere.
Quote from: DaggeWhen we get an idea 'from the head', this idea is actually a more distant memory of some song
That's 100% true.
Cryptomnesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia) — a forgotten memory, that feels as something new and original.
Blind people don't have ideas of pictures, deaf people don't have idea of sounds. All our ideas are "stolen", work with it to avoid lawsuits. Spotify recently patented a leadsheet comparing tool to minimize unconscious plagiarism.
Quote from: bugmenot on December 21, 2020, 09:02:37 AM
That's 100% true.
Cryptomnesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia) — a forgotten memory, that feels as something new and original.
Blind people don't have ideas of pictures, deaf people don't have idea of sounds. All our ideas are "stolen", work with it to avoid lawsuits. Spotify recently patented a leadsheet comparing tool to minimize unconscious plagiarism.
Is this tool available publically? Is there an article or anything on how it functions?
It's only a patent for now but seems yes, it will be available for every artist.
Spotify just invented ai technology that will police songwriter plagiarism (https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-just-invented-ai-technology-that-will-police-songwriter-plagiarism/)
I think it's way more complex than that: as I said before it's about the feeling and I see inspiration as a form of flattering.
I like so much what you do that I'm trying to replicate it.
I agree. Classical composers used to say something like, I like your music and I will take your part and mould it in my own way and it will become mine. That was acceptable for them.
Re Spotify, there are some big questions to be solved. Chord progressions or prosody (the rhythm of the melody) cannot be registered. You can only register the melody phrase (number of consecutive tones). The main question is how many compared notes will be considered as plagiarism. If they consider that number to be 6 or less, everyone will sue everyone else including biggest names, if not else because of the probability law. All 2-6 note phrases are already taken and registered long ago. If we abandon all tonal combinations that are unpleasant to the ear, possibilities to be original yet attractive will shrink even more.
Plagiarism should start by at least 7 or even better 8 consecutive notes of similarity, together with similar rhythm and chords. Anything less than that is a subjective punishment not based on the facts. And the Law itself was never a matter of subjective circumstances. Of course, if you have mega-hit greedy people will try to persuade the judge that your hard rock song is actually a copy of Beatles Yesterday. Money and greed do wonders and nobody is protected.
So you better get your ears trained and learn some music theory to re arrange these recycled melodies and not get a sue! haha