Cheiron Songwriters and Max Martin fan-forum and music discussion board www.swedishsongs.de - All about Swedish songwriters and music

what's happened to the site??

Quote from: "andrea"what's happened to the site??

It's offline!  :wink:

yeah, I noticed that too, I wonder if they're updating things? probably not!

Quote from: "Rebecca"yeah, I noticed that too, I wonder if they're updating things? probably not!

I doubt they even noticed it...

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"I doubt they even noticed it...

haha, i know!!

i think that the site has been closed... the new index page has nothing to do with maratone studios or max martin!

oh dear, you are right!  it's gone!
also www.maxmartin.com and www.maxmartin.se which also was redirected to the site for maratone also comes up blank.

must be that they haven't re-registered the domain names and now not bothering with it, shame.

"Anmälan till Guldäggstävlingen 2006".
If my gf's Swedish is right, she says it means "Register for gold digging competition 2006".  :?  :?  :?  :?

Uhm...  :?:
Did they have a lack of money so they had to go dig for gold?! *lol*
What about some good compositions instead?!?!!?  :roll:

They really could at least have a myspace profile, just for the sake of it.
I think they just think noone cares about and can't imagine there are fans of THEM  :)

Quote from: "turnaround"They really could at least have a myspace profile, just for the sake of it.
I think they just think noone cares about and can't imagine there are fans of THEM  :)

why should they? it'd just cause work. its not like they need to advertise themselves to get clients. they're just being practical.

Myspace doesn't really cause work.
And if they would update their list of new songs I guess some people got interested in these artists and purchase.

Quote from: "turnaround"Myspace doesn't really cause work.
And if they would update their list of new songs I guess some people got interested in these artists and purchase.

dont be foolish, people dont purchase music cause the producer or writer of the songs has them on his myspace page. most people dont give a damn about the producers and writers anyway. and myspace does cause work. just imagine they spend 20 minutes on their profile each week, that'd be 16 hours every year. and we all know that a myspace site would require more time than 20 minutes a week. even if 1000 people would purchase music through a cheiron myspace site, it wouldnt justify the work it'd cause them.

Fair enough.
Maybe Maaratone isn't anymore. Alexandraa left.
And if so, I couldn't even bother.
There are lots of studios where Max can produce his stuff and it wouldn't surprise me if he will go into songwriting only soon.

Alexandra left?  :(

Quote from: "turnaround"Fair enough.
Maybe Maaratone isn't anymore. Alexandraa left.
And if so, I couldn't even bother.
There are lots of studios where Max can produce his stuff and it wouldn't surprise me if he will go into songwriting only soon.

Max is too much of a control freak to let people produce all of his music. Being only a songwriter would put him into a very passive situation. He'd almost no control over what the final version of a song would sound like.

Quote from: "Linda"Alexandra left?  :(

Yes.
From myspace:

QuoteNow running her own studio and production/publishing company Maridox Songs. Administrated by Kobalt Music.

http://www.myspace.com/alexandratalomaa


Hits, do you know Max personally?

Quote from: "hits"Max is too much of a control freak to let people produce all of his music. Being only a songwriter would put him into a very passive situation. He'd almost no control over what the final version of a song would sound like.

I think what hits said was right, they don't bother.
A producer's myspace ain't the place to promote music!

On the other hand I disagree about the songwriting/producing. I don't think he bothers. You (hits) seem to know him pretty well to be able to call him a "control freak", hmm? ;-)

Personally I think within the next years they'll all settle down with their families somewhere and quit "working". (my thoughts)

Quote from: "turnaround"Hits, do you know Max personally?

*lol* Look at who's getting sweaty hands!!

I think it would be a great idea for Maratone to have a myspace though with Rami and Arnthor already having their own myspace, they probably won't bother to have a Maratone one also, I doubt we'll see Max having his own myspace!

Maybe Maratone isn't any longer, as Turnaround says, considering Rami lives half in the time in LA, maybe Max does too? and there would be plenty of studios they can use.

I think people do buy music because of the songwriters/producers - we do! and they'd be plenty more like us.

Quote from: "Rebecca"I think people do buy music because of the songwriters/producers - we do! and they'd be plenty more like us.

...and that is why a Britney Spears board has 5000 registered users and we have 22...  :roll:

I agree there ARE people who buy music because of the producers, but that's probably about 2% of em all.
And 2% doesn't make an album sell 10 million copies...  :roll:

10 million album buyers make 200 000 of them the songwriter-based purchasing people.
Not bad if you ask me. But who sells so many copies anyway these days.

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"
...and that is why a Britney Spears board has 5000 registered users and we have 22...  :roll:

I agree there ARE people who buy music because of the producers, but that's probably about 2% of em all.
And 2% doesn't make an album sell 10 million copies...  :roll:

Very true, though a long time ago (before Britney's 2nd pregnancy) there was a thread about who the rumoured producers were on her next album - but considering only about 10 people actually post on that site, it's only the diehards who are interested. Generally, fans aren't interested. oh well.

Quote from: "turnaround"10 million album buyers make 200 000 of them the songwriter-based purchasing people.

To speak in your own words: As IF!  :roll:

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "turnaround"10 million album buyers make 200 000 of them the songwriter-based purchasing people.

To speak in your own words: As IF!  :roll:

well, it's a nice thought that there could be 200 000 people songwriter purchasing people! - you never know - one day!

i do think more people become interested in producers, especially with the internet and you can search and find out such information.

Quote from: "Rebecca"

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "turnaround"10 million album buyers make 200 000 of them the songwriter-based purchasing people.

To speak in your own words: As IF!  :roll:

well, it's a nice thought that there could be 200 000 people songwriter purchasing people! - you never know - one day!

i do think it's more and more people all the time especially with the internet and you can search and find out such information.

Well, but Max doesnt want it any other way, he doesnt want people to buy records because of him. If he would've wanted to be a big star he would've craved the spotlight, like Timbaland. He's also just a producer, just like Max, but appears in almost all the videos of the songs he produced. Timbaland is famous for nothing else but producing. Max would've been able to get the same kind of exposure. Just imagine what a big star he would've been if he woulda appeared in all the BSB, NSYNC or Britney songs he produced/wrote.

oops, i just edited my post after you quoted it!

I like the way Max stays in the background (though I'd love to see more of him!). Timbaland, P Diddy and The Neptunes are everywhere! I like the separation between the artist and the songwriter, makes it more mysterious!

Quote from: "hits"

Well, but Max doesnt want it any other way, he doesnt want people to buy records because of him. If he would've wanted to be a big star he would've craved the spotlight, like Timbaland.

Yeah, I wonder whether he would want people to buy records because of him, I do agree that he would want to stay in the background and not have to deal with publicity and the hassles that go with being famous, but wouldn't he want to sell records? want some recognition??

I wonder if he checks the charts?

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "turnaround"10 million album buyers make 200 000 of them the songwriter-based purchasing people.

To speak in your own words: As IF!  :roll:

Absolutely stupid.

It doesn't even matter HOW MANY of our likes exist, as long as we get the information about new songs somewhere it's fine with me, and there are admittedly not very much songs these days anymore from the writers

Yes, it is very disappointing that there are not that many songs these days from the songwriters. Maybe if they released more they would run the risk of their songs becoming ordinary.

Maybe there are not that many songs anymore because Max and the other guys arent really that good at writing in other styles than Teen/Dance Pop. The Britney and BSB pop that made Max and Cheiron big is obviously dead, there's no demand for it anymore.

Many artists want to write themselves to be more credible in the genres there would be a demand.
Though Max showed that he can go ROCK and still deliver hits.

Quote from: "hits"Maybe there are not that many songs anymore because Max and the other guys arent really that good at writing in other styles than Teen/Dance Pop.

You do have heard of the P!NK-, APA-, MARION RAVEN-, NICK CARTER-, BON JOVI- or PAUL STANLEY-songs to name just a few examples?!
That's all not exactly "Teen/Dance Pop"...

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "hits"Maybe there are not that many songs anymore because Max and the other guys arent really that good at writing in other styles than Teen/Dance Pop.

You do have heard of the P!NK-, APA-, MARION RAVEN-, NICK CARTER-, BON JOVI- or PAUL STANLEY-songs to name just a few examples?!
That's all not exactly "Teen/Dance Pop"...

Please read my posts properly.
I was talking about MAX, and that he has delivered hits in the rock-genre.

But Andreas, Kristian etc writing good rock-songs?

Not that I know.  :lol:

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "hits"Maybe there are not that many songs anymore because Max and the other guys arent really that good at writing in other styles than Teen/Dance Pop.

You do have heard of the P!NK-, APA-, MARION RAVEN-, NICK CARTER-, BON JOVI- or PAUL STANLEY-songs to name just a few examples?!
That's all not exactly "Teen/Dance Pop"...

But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we !? Everything Max did on his own (eg, Nick) wasnt a hit. Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway. Pink, Kelly, Marion, Veronicas - all of the real rock smashes Max did were co-written by Lukasz.

Quote from: "turnaround"

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "hits"Maybe there are not that many songs anymore because Max and the other guys arent really that good at writing in other styles than Teen/Dance Pop.

You do have heard of the P!NK-, APA-, MARION RAVEN-, NICK CARTER-, BON JOVI- or PAUL STANLEY-songs to name just a few examples?!
That's all not exactly "Teen/Dance Pop"...

Please read my posts properly.
I was talking about MAX, and that he has delivered hits in the rock-genre.

But Andreas, Kristian etc writing good rock-songs?

Not that I know.  :lol:

eehm, Andreas was the one working with Paul Stanley... So he can definitely write good rock-songs :)

Ok, it's definitely a matter of taste, I am personally not convinced by the songs he wrote for Stanley.
And to be fair, their output just isn't the same anymore..

Quote from: "turnaround"Ok, it's definitely a matter of taste, I am personally not convinced by the songs he wrote for Stanley.
And to be fair, their output just isn't the same anymore..

I'm not saying I LIKE it, but if he was asked to work with Mr Stanley..... Just saying Max isn't the only one who's been writing rock-songs.
To be honest, I don't like the new Stanley album, and I've been a Kiss fan for as long as I can remember...

Rock music is less commercial than pop music. It's more easy make a big success with pop songs like"baby one more time" or "as long as you love me" instead with rock song. Lukasz Gottwald is a good songwriter but  i don't remember nobody worldwide hit he wrote alone.....CONTRARY max won for 3 yearsASCAP award.Lot of succes of the duo max/dr.luke is at 70% by Max and 30% by mister gottwald.

Quote from: "Alex Martin"Lot of succes of the duo max/dr.luke is at 70% by Max and 30% by mister gottwald.

Wrong. If that would be the case it'd always say "Max Martin/Lukasz Gottwald" in the credits, but it's the other way around. Seems like some Max fans here dont want to admit the truth. I personally love Max, big fan, but without Luke he cant write hit rock songs. Thats a fact. But Luke on the other hand can write rock stuff without Max. Just look at the new Avril record.

Hits read this.......

Martin Sandberg grew up in Stenhamra, Ekerö Municipality, a suburb of Stockholm. As a teenager he sang in several bands before joining a glam-style METAL BAND called It's Alive in 1985 as their singer and frontman. It's Alive were formed by ex LAZY members Per Aldeheim and Kim Björkgren on guitars, and John Rosth who had been a member of "Lineout".


I don't think max needed lukasz for to learn write rock music :D

Quote from: "turnaround"Please read my posts properly.
I was talking about MAX, and that he has delivered hits in the rock-genre.

Please YOU read my post even more carefully, cause I wasn't quoting or talking to you, but referring to "hits" posting! ;-)

Quote from: "hits"But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we!?

I don't.

Quote from: "hits"Wrong. If that would be the case it'd always say "Max Martin/Lukasz Gottwald" in the credits, but it's the other way around.

And you know that? *lol*

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "turnaround"Please read my posts properly.
I was talking about MAX, and that he has delivered hits in the rock-genre.

Please YOU read my post even more carefully, cause I wasn't quoting or talking to you, but referring to "hits" posting! ;-)

Quote from: "hits"But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we!?

I don't.

Quote from: "hits"Wrong. If that would be the case it'd always say "Max Martin/Lukasz Gottwald" in the credits, but it's the other way around.

And you know that? *lol*

Take a look at the CDs you own, moron. It's on them. If Max would've written most of each song, his name would have been listed FIRST and NOT SECOND!

Quote from: "Alex Martin"Hits read this.......

Martin Sandberg grew up in Stenhamra, Ekerö Municipality, a suburb of Stockholm. As a teenager he sang in several bands before joining a glam-style METAL BAND called It's Alive in 1985 as their singer and frontman. It's Alive were formed by ex LAZY members Per Aldeheim and Kim Björkgren on guitars, and John Rosth who had been a member of "Lineout".


I don't think max needed lukasz for to learn write rock music :D

Ok, then why is he writing with him if he doesnt need him? Do you think Max would give Luke half of the production/publishing money if he wouldnt absolutely need him? Max closed Cheiron cause he didnt want to give Denniz's Wife half of the money anymore... Denniz's Wife owned Cheiron with Max, she got half of the money, thats why he closed it and started Maratone. But I guess you people dont even know that.

And that Max used to play in a rock band (over 10 years ago) doesnt mean its easy for him to write modern rock songs. After all It's Alive wasnt really that successful were they? No, they werent. And Max realized that he was better at Pop than Rock. Otherwise he wouldnt have left his band and joined Cheiron.

You guys are giving Lukasz not enough credit. Again, Lukasz just completed a HIT album without Max, Avril's new album. Where are Max's solo rock records that are hits? I dont see any. I'm not trying to bash Max here, I love that guy, but you guys are being ignorant, worshiping him like a god.

Unknow artists that with Max became famous in the world: 1)BACKSTREET BOYS 2)BRITNEY SPEARS 3)NSYNC 4)FIVE and many more.....


Unknow artist with lukasz became famous in the world: ?????  Can you help me to remember HITS???? :D


Too easy work with avril.She is very famous in the world. Most difficult with UNKNOWS ARTIST just max did it!!!!!!

See YA.

max is a great melodist and a great POP producer, lukasz is a great guitarist and a good ROCK producer... you can't compare them!

do you think that lukasz is mostly responsible for the songs they wrote together? i don't believe that... i think that max makes most part of the melody, and lukasz takes care of the guitars...

everyone has his own role... so i think that this is a very stupid conversation! :lol:

edit: max wrote all marion's tracks with rami expect for 'break you'!

Quote from: "hits"Take a look at the CDs you own, moron. It's on them. If Max would've written most of each song, his name would have been listed FIRST and NOT SECOND!

And you of course know that the order of the names means who has done the most of the writing/producing? *lol* Sure.

Oh and I guess by offending me you're trying to prove your maturity?! ;-)

Quote from: "hits"Ok, then why is he writing with him if he doesnt need him?

Maybe cause they are mates and ENJOY working together?! :roll:

Quote from: "hits"Do you think Max would give Luke half of the production/publishing money if he wouldnt absolutely need him? Max closed Cheiron cause he didnt want to give Denniz's Wife half of the money anymore... Denniz's Wife owned Cheiron with Max, she got half of the money, thats why he closed it and started Maratone. But I guess you people dont even know that.

YEAH! That is the reason! You got it all figured out!
Man I'm glad you joined us here. Finally someone's bringing light in the dark. *lol* Thanks man for clearing this up...  :roll:

Maybe we all should donate some money to Max & the others, not so they have to worry 'bout all the money they have to give to others. I bet it bothers them a lot... Bet they get really frustrated everytime they check their bank accounts. "Damn, so little money..."

this is a really heated interesting debate isn't it! I had no idea that the closure of cheiron was because max didn't want to split any further payments with denniz's widow. That is interesting.
I would really like to see a good in depth biography written about all of cheiron, from start until now. Perhaps then we might be able to say with some degree of certainty what all of the internal wranglings and politics really were like, and indeed who contributed how much to each project.
I always refere to cheiron or max, but i find it easier that way. Perhaps we should refer to all of those guys as 'the collective'???
It is interesting to hear everyones views. I personally have no allegiance to any of 'the collective', but because of the press that was given to him at the time find it natural to assume that max was and in a way kind of still is the leader of the pack.
I don't know who played the bigger role in the more recent rockier stuff. But one thing that i am left wondering is.... if max isn't as good a rock producer as he is a pop producer, and bearing in mind that it has been said on this forum that he closed cheiron because of business reasons (didn't want to split money with Mrs pop), then why on earth would he not make the most of every business opportunity that came his way, ie why didn't he work with the BSB's oh their forthcoming album?
Hit's, i was wondering how you know that this was infact the reason that cheiron closed?
I also wonder if anyone else has any idea how the whole financing of cheiron (or any production company) works.
I was always led to believe that each producer is paid a production fee (they charge what they want) for each track. And then the royalties are an entirely seperate residual entity.
Indeed does anyone know what cheiron or maratone charged per track? Bearing in mind that during the heyday, anything they made was virtually a guaruntedd hit, i think they must have charged $350 000, to $500 000 per song.
Anone enlighten us?

I did a little online interview with Savan and that's what he told me:
Summarised and roughly translated back to English as I don't have much time right now.


Question: "Imagine you have a track released on a 10-track album. How many would you earn in this case, if it sells 1 000 000 copies. And which percentage does a songwriter get normally.

Savan:
Different countries have different regulations for that. But I experienced that you only get 70 % of the money I thought I was entitled with.
I don't know a exact formula but out of my experience I can say, if a song is released on a million seller in the US it is worth 70.000 $ of mechanical royalities.
If you have written 33 % of the song you get 23.100 $. Then the publisher will take it's part. I know there is a fix formula how much you get for a song in the US, but I have to admit I don't know it.
But 70.000 $ for a song on a album is pretty close to it.


BTW: He also said that it's always fair divided. The one who worked most on the song gets most...

Quote from: "hits"

But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we !? Everything Max did on his own (eg, Nick) wasnt a hit. Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway. Pink, Kelly, Marion, Veronicas - all of the real rock smashes Max did were co-written by Lukasz.

Wow, this is a very interesting and heated discussion!
Regarding Bon Jovi It's My Life, Bon Jovi unfairly downplayed Max's role in the writing of that song saying he only gave Max credit because he was in the room at the time (there have been articles on this). I have heard from a pretty good source that Max was singing on the demo and Per Aldeheim played the guitar. If you listen to it the song is typical Max Martin style, to me sounds like BSB's Don't Want You Back.

As for Lukasz being responsible for Pink/Kelly/Veronicas etc, I would like to know where you get that idea from (other than the credits)? have you read that in any interviews with Dr Luke? i'm very curious to know this.

As for Cheiron being closed down, I too read somewhere (perhaps in a Fox News report?) years ago and it said Max closed Cheiron down re he didn't want to pay out Denniz's wife - I didn't pay too much attention to it, figured the songwriters would have made more than enough money to not worry about that.
I read in an interview (on www.hitquarters.com - you have to pay $15 USD to become a member and then you can check out interviews, i recommend it, I didn't put this on my site cos i didn't want to steal it) with Kristian Lundin, he said that it didn't feel right to keep going with Cheiron after the death of Denniz Pop, they just had to fulfill committments to record companies (i believe they had a 5 yr contract with Jive which would have finished mid 2000) - which seemed more believable to me.

Quote from: "®a|ÑßØw÷¢H!LÐ"

Quote from: "hits"Take a look at the CDs you own, moron. It's on them. If Max would've written most of each song, his name would have been listed FIRST and NOT SECOND!

And you of course know that the order of the names means who has done the most of the writing/producing? *lol* Sure.

Of course, the person who is listed first did most of the writing. That's a fact, a rule. I work in the music industry. But usually fans also know this stuff.

And about Cheiron closing down. First of all I know this for a fact, how I know doesnt matter. This is also all over the net, accessible to everyone who does a little bit of research. Of course Max fans dont want to admit that he closed Cheiron because he didnt want to split money with Denniz's wife anymore, but its the truth. If you think he doesnt care about money anymore since he's already rich, then you're fooling yourselves. Most of you are rich, considered by international standards. You all have a roof over your head, you even own computers and most likely cars. But does that mean that you just would give away half of your salary? No, you'd want to keep as much of your money as you could. And the same applies to people who have a lot of money. You dont give away cash just cause you already have a decent amount of money. That'd be insane, no matter how rich you are.

How do production companies finance themselves. First, they charge per track. Big producers can charge anything between 100-500k, maybe even more. And then they get publishing and performance royalties (everytime their song gets played on the radio, performed live, etc) and they get points on each record they produce. 1 point usually stands for $0.10, and big producers get A LOT of points.

I will refrain from posting in this forum from now on, since my input is obviously not appreciated. You'd rather keep your fantasies about what a god Max is, instead of analyzing and figuring out who he really is. To me that's what a real fan would do, not worshiping him like a god.

Quote from: "Rebecca"

Quote from: "hits"

But we all know the rumors that Lukasz is mostly responsible for these tunes, dont we !? Everything Max did on his own (eg, Nick) wasnt a hit. Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway. Pink, Kelly, Marion, Veronicas - all of the real rock smashes Max did were co-written by Lukasz.

Wow, this is a very interesting and heated discussion!
Regarding Bon Jovi It's My Life, Bon Jovi unfairly downplayed Max's role in the writing of that song saying he only gave Max credit because he was in the room at the time (there have been articles on this). I have heard from a pretty good source that Max was singing on the demo and Per Aldeheim played the guitar. If you listen to it the song is typical Max Martin style, to me sounds like BSB's Don't Want You Back.

As for Lukasz being responsible for Pink/Kelly/Veronicas etc, I would like to know where you get that idea from (other than the credits)? have you read that in any interviews with Dr Luke? i'm very curious to know this.

As for Cheiron being closed down, I too read somewhere (perhaps in a Fox News report?) years ago and it said Max closed Cheiron down re he didn't want to pay out Denniz's wife - I didn't pay too much attention to it, figured the songwriters would have made more than enough money to not worry about that.
I read in an interview (on www.hitquarters.com - you have to pay $15 USD to become a member and then you can check out interviews, i recommend it, I didn't put this on my site cos i didn't want to steal it) with Kristian Lundin, he said that it didn't feel right to keep going with Cheiron after the death of Denniz Pop, they just had to fulfill committments to record companies (i believe they had a 5 yr contract with Jive which would have finished mid 2000) - which seemed more believable to me.

Just saw your reply, you're being nice, so I will make a comment for a last time.

Again, Cheiron closed because max didnt want to split money anymore, but not only him, also the other songwriters. The whole "it just didnt felt right anymore" is the official statement. I mean they couldnt just say "We dont want to pay Denniz's wife half of what we make anymore, so we're closing the studio and starting our own", could they? No. Cheiron had such a big name, it was a brand like the name Backstreet Boys or Britney Spears. Nobody changes their name for no reason, especially if it's a huge brand and people identify a lot of success with it.

I'm not sure about Bon Jovi, I dont know who did most of the writing there but I am sure about all Kelly, Veronicas and Pink songs. How I know doesnt matter, I work in the European music industry and this is well know. That's why Avril did only work with Luke on her new album. You will see more of this, Luke working solo, without Max. There is a reason for this. And dont be silly, these guys arent working together because they're close friends. There are other dynamics and reasons involved here. Lukasz is from New York City, Max from Stockholm. I will let you guys figure everything out by yourself, but I will give you a hint. Look at what Max did for the 3 years before he started working with Lukasz. Analyze this and you will maybe figure out what's up, assuming you got some brains.

Quote from: "hits"

I will refrain from posting in this forum from now on, since my input is obviously not appreciated. You'd rather keep your fantasies about what a god Max is, instead of analyzing and figuring out who he really is. To me that's what a real fan would do, not worshiping him like a god.

Personally I don't analyse and try to figure out who Max is, I really just love the songs and that's why I'm a fan, I understand that I don't really know anything about him and that's fine to me, I'm just always looking forward to the songs.

So, even if it's true re Max closing down the studio re money - thought I don't know how closing down a studio would mean not giving Denniz's wife any money, surely he would have had to pay her out her share. Nevertheless, I don't know the details and I don't care. Yep, I understand that even wealthy people still won't give away their money and I have no problem with that, if they've earnt it, they deserve it - I'd do the same, but I just prefer to focus on the songs (whoever Max wrote them with).

Hits, you're more than welcome to continue to post in the forum, I'm all for any sort of discussion, up to you.

You know, I'm just thinking about the Cheiron closing down thing, and well, if it was to stop paying Denniz's wife money, then so what? I don't want to be disrespectful to Mrs Pop, but if she has nothing to do with writing or producing why should she continue to earn money from Cheiron? Why is that such a bad thing for the songwriters to do anyway? I'm thinking that she would have been left quite a lot of money from Denniz anyway, and would still receive royalties from songs he co-wrote (assuming he left that to her). so big deal. apologies if anyone thinks I'm being too harsh on poor Mrs Denniz Pop.

Quote from: "Rebecca"You know, I'm just thinking about the Cheiron closing down thing, and well, if it was to stop paying Denniz's wife money, then so what? I don't want to be disrespectful to Mrs Pop, but if she has nothing to do with writing or producing why should she continue to earn money from Cheiron? Why is that such a bad thing for the songwriters to do anyway? I'm thinking that she would have been left quite a lot of money from Denniz anyway, and would still receive royalties from songs he co-wrote (assuming he left that to her). so big deal. apologies if anyone thinks I'm being too harsh on poor Mrs Denniz Pop.

I agree. I just brought it up because I mentioned money, just to show some of the fanatic fans on here that Max wouldnt work with Luke if he wouldnt have to or need him.

No problem hits- it's fine to have another perspective on things - and you're still here!
Re the Dr Luke thing, obviously I don't know what happens in a studio, who writes exactly what, true Max usually has to write with other guitarists to have the rock song sound, eg Per Aldeheim re Nick, Lambretta songs as well as Dr Luke. But no matter what style of song, the Max Martin co-written songs just grab me more than other songs (i'm still a fanatic!).

Hello people out there!

I dont understand max cant write rock without luke? OK People who said this cant be serious....Max Martin is Rock.....listen to the songs its a little rock in every song , ok not in every but almost that he write.

I think all this is strange....One thing, what would music be without Max and the other cheiron guys? who is luke without max....sorry not the hits witout max...Max are the HITS the number one

Quote from: "nicky26"Hello people out there!

I dont understand max cant write rock without luke? OK People who said this cant be serious....Max Martin is Rock.....listen to the songs its a little rock in every song , ok not in every but almost that he write.

I think all this is strange....One thing, what would music be without Max and the other cheiron guys? who is luke without max....sorry not the hits witout max...Max are the HITS the number one

I agree: what would music be without Max? i don't even want to imagine, music would be very dull and true there is rock in quite a few BSB songs like Larger Than Life, even The Call etc, even some Britney songs, the list goes on.

Quote from: "hits"First of all I know this for a fact, how I know doesnt matter.

:roll:

QUESTION  :D  :D  :D  :D

If luke is the mind of the rock songs he co-write with max.....why all these songs are very very similat to BIMBO by Lambretta wrote by max?????? :D  :D  :D

Just an example......LIE...IT'S ALL RIGHT  by Bo Bice co wrote by Max and Luke is very very very very similar to BIMBO by Lambretta :D  :D  :D

Quote from: Rebecca

Quote from: nicky26Hello people out there!


And all this talk about money and luke, Whats wrong??? HITS WROTE"""" Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway"". Bon Jovi was down and out, he came back because of max martin hit its my life...he have realesed album after that ...do you "hits" find more nr1 hits after its my life??? ok everyday was a little hit "andreas carlsson and cherion sound....Do you think these big stars think its funny to work with andreas, max and more?? No they need to.....


The answer to all this have max himself, and cherion was what it was...
and they can do Rock And Pop......

It's an interesting discussion here. I wish someone from the Cheiron guys would come there one day and tell us about what's behind all that.

Oh and hits, I would love you to stay. Would be nice.  :)

Quote from: "turnaround"It's an interesting discussion here. I wish someone from the Cheiron guys would come there one day and tell us about what's behind all that.

Oh and hits, I would love you to stay. Would be nice.  :)

i Agree with you .......  :-({|= Max Martin rocks....

And everybody...listen to the 2song at the here i am single with marion raven...MAx Martin/Rami ......i love it

Yeah, ithink all of that too.
No one needs to leave just because of differing opinions!

Hi Jules, I'm getting the feeling you're being sarcastic there? but i'll take it. yes, i get that it would seem very sucky of me to say that hits was welcome!  To explain I said Hits was welcome to stay in the forum because I don't see the point in being rude to someone I don't know just because they disagree with people here. I don't expect people to agree with everyone on every thing all the time.
Obviously Hits is ignorant of a lot of Max's songs eg the rock songs he's written without Lukasz.
But he did bring up one interesting point: that there must be some rumours going around that Lukasz wrote most of the songs rather than Max, which makes me wonder why? maybe out of jealousy of Max's success? I wonder if Max and Luke will continue to work together? made me wonder about the competitiveness between songwriters etc

Quote from: nicky26

Quote from: Rebecca

Quote from: "nicky26"Hello people out there!


And all this talk about money and luke, Whats wrong??? HITS WROTE"""" Bon Jovi was, but then again I'm sure Jon and Richie came up with most of the song on their own anyway"". Bon Jovi was down and out, he came back because of max martin hit its my life...he have realesed album after that ...do you "hits" find more nr1 hits after its my life??? ok everyday was a little hit "andreas carlsson and cherion sound....Do you think these big stars think its funny to work with andreas, max and more?? No they need to.....


The answer to all this have max himself, and cherion was what it was...
and they can do Rock And Pop......

Nicky, I'm soo sorry, I meant to quote you but I hit the edit button instead then wrote my post then submitted it - only then did i realise i had edited your post instead of quoting it - aah I feel like an idiot.  Just so you know I just don't go around editing people's post!

because what i was going to say was that Bon Jovi have always had help writing songs, early days it was Desmond Child, and for Hits to suggest that Max didn't write It's My Life was ridiculous.

And adding to the rock songs without Lukasz is Pain - Just Hate Me!

Something's rotten in Denmark, more or less.

Herbie Crichlow, the British-born songwriter of such Backstreet Boys hits as last year's "Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely" and 1997's "Quit Playing Games With My Heart," told me he has yet to be paid for his work. And he's owed something in the ballpark of $3 million for albums and singles sold by the group through Jive/Zomba Records.

Crichlow has been living in Sweden for the last several years, writing songs at the "factory" called Cheiron Productions, owned by Max Martin (real name: Karl Martin Sandberg). Martin has become infamous for mass producing pop goop for acts like Backstreet, 'N Sync and Britney Spears. His company does all its business through Zomba Music, the parent of Jive Records, for which all those acts record.

Interestingly, Martin is rarely credited as a solo writer, but instead with established pairs of writers whose songs he supposedly "tweaks," then owns the rights to. Crichlow is one of the writers whose work Martin co-owns and claims co-authorship.

But Crichlow said that last year, when he started asking Martin to show him the money, Martin turned on him and the relationship soured. Crichlow and his manager Johnny Onyems figure Herbie, father of two, is owed about $3 million for five Backstreet hits including the radio smashes "Show Me" and "Quit Playing Games." Herbie has also written European hits for acts like 3T and Robin.

Crichlow said that Zomba, which administers the rights and writes the checks, is claiming that he was signed to Mega Records in Denmark, which was in turn sold to Edel America Records, and so they have had trouble getting the accounting done.

"That's ridiculous," both Herbie and Johnny O told me recently. "They know how many records have been sold. It's millions."

Zomba/Jive's Richard Blackstone did not respond to calls about Crichlow's claim — just as Herbie predicted. "I've tried to get an answer from Blackstone and from Barry Weiss, but they won't return calls," he said. So Crichlow has hired Atlanta-based powerhouse music attorney Joel Katz to sort out and resolve these problems.

Crichlow has received his performance royalty payments (meaning radio play) from ASCAP for his songs — but the money that's owed is from sales. And worldwide sales for albums and singles with his songs have been staggering.

Crichlow said that because of the fallout between him and Martin, he was banned from having songs on the Backstreet Boys' recent Black and Blue album. That record has turned out to be a sales disappointment, with only 4.8 million copies sold in the U.S. to date, according to SoundScan.

"I submitted a track called 'Over You,' and they said the album was closed. But then, after they listened to my song, they said the whole album was being reconsidered. You see, 'Over You' was the strongest thing they'd heard. But they couldn't use it because I was in this fight with them. I had to get the track back."

Backstreet's previous album, Millenium, on which Crichlow's "Show Me" was a hit single, sold 11.7 million copies in this country.

Last year, Martin shut down the incredibly successful Cheiron Productions with little notice. He put out a press release that strained the boundaries of credulity: "After eight years of incredible joy but also enormous pain (the death of our beloved partner Denniz Pop) it's time to move on. Cheiron was created with the intention of having fun, making a few hits and not getting too serious about it. At the end of this year we have fulfilled our commitments and are able to do as we please. We feel that the 'hype' of Cheiron has become bigger than itself and it's time to quit while we're ahead."

But Martin immediately restarted Cheiron as Merlin Productions. The reason, according to sources, was that the widow of deceased Cheiron partner Dag "Denniz PoP" Volle owned 50 percent of the former company. "And Martin didn't want to split the money with her anymore."

The business of corporate songwriting has been very lucrative for Martin. Another partner, Tom Talomaa, now owns homes around the world including one in Key West, Fla.

Merlin, according to Onyems and Crichlow, employs a staggering 27 producers. And to think, the first big group out of Sweden, the Shocking Blue, sang their hit "I'm Your Venus" phonetically in 1970 because they didn't know any English.

Crichlow, meantime, loaded with hot demo tapes and more hit songs, is busy shopping among the labels for a publishing/producing deal of his own. My guess is he'll be snapped up very shortly.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1962,00.html

OKEY  :smt031

I like and love the songs max martin have written or produced, and the rest a dont care.........herbie isent that a car?? ok sorry....have a nice day everybody

yeah, that's the article I thought you were referring to.

so, hits, what's your point?

obviously i have no idea if any of that is true, if it is true, well it still doesn't change that I love Max Martin's music plus Cheiron etc including Herbie's music!

I'm curious to know if Herbie is still bitter towards the Cheiron writers or just Max. If you look at Herbie's myspace and the ex-Cheiron's writers there are friendly messages to and from them quite often. so, i think he's kinda over it. but hey what do i know, it's just what i think.

Interesting this foxnews report. But it's from 2001.
Any updates on this matter.


Oh I remember back then there was a songwriter claiming he submitted "What you see is what you get" and "Can't make you love me" but they were turned down. But on the Britney album both were on with credits from the Cheiron writers.

This was also going to court but I think the writers lost.

Oh interesting, I found a link for this  :D

http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/law/library/cases/case_cottrillspears.html

You can listen to the two different versions   :wink:

Quote from: "hits"Crichlow, meantime, loaded with hot demo tapes and more hit songs, is busy shopping among the labels for a publishing/producing deal of his own. My guess is he'll be snapped up very shortly.

And indeed it looks like he quit his trying. At his myspace (was it there? I think so) he says something like "no more chains" or something!

Obviously he's sick & tired of the companies!

Quote from: "nicky26"herbie isent that a car??

And you stop dissing Herbie, he's awesome-ly talented!!!  :wink: Hehe.

hey turnaround, thanks for posting that link! i've always wondered what the 'other' song actually sounded like - very interesting!
obviously the Britney song is quite a bit better!

yep, i wonder what Herbie thinks about the whole Cheiron experience now?
anyone heard any recent music from Herbie?

Just a question.
Is this "Mrs Pop" Jessica Folcker?

^ Yeah thats what I was thinking...

Yeah, I used to wonder if Mrs Pop was Jessica Folcker too.
but i think when Denniz died he left behind a 14 year old son, Jessica would have been about 23 yrs old when Denniz Pop died, so it couldn't have been her son as well, so I have always assumed that the Mrs Pop was the woman he had a child with and not Jessica. Then again he could have been married to Jessica and just had the son from a previous relationship.
hmm, anyone know?

No, she's not Mrs Pop, neither is the mother of his son. Jessica and Denniz broke up before he got cancer, and she's not the mother of his son either. Don't know who Mrs Pop is though...

Wow! another mystery......

Private life......... i´ll guess......

Well, maybe this has nothing to do with the topic anymore, but http://www.maratone.se is up again ;)

Oh great.
The re-designed the site a bit, now I can finally scroll there.

hey, that's great, i was worried it was shutting down or something.

I am sure "hits" is not making all that legal stuff up, because the articles and the links to the sites have merit to what what he is saying.
But again, being a huge music producer and writer, legal trouble comes with the territory.

Now as for this thing about the "songwriting credits" with Max first and then Luke Next or the other way around...

Ok first of all, "hits" is right - whichever name comes first is the person who composed most of the song ( i don't know what %, etc..)but in general that's the rule.  Now hits, I have a question for you...which song/album are you referring to when you say that Luke's name comes first and not Max's because I trust this site is accurate and I have a whole bunch of albums from many (not all) of the artists on this site and Max's name is FIRST in the songwriting credits AND the production credits and then Luke's name is second.  Please tell me the name of a song/artist where Max and Luke work together and Luke's name comes FIRST in the credits...I really would like to hear such a song....

You are saying we are giving Max too much credit, well maybe you are not giving him enough.  You say that Max is nowhere without Luke when it comes to rock songs...I completely disagree...

First, Max is both pop AND rock by nature (those who say he is a POP producer and can't be compared with a ROCK producer, are dead wrong.)

Now for my example: listen to the song "Break You" by Marion Raven (notice how Max's name is first and THEN Luke).  Anyway, listen to that song and keep in mind that Max and Luke (in that order) both wrote and produced that song.  Now after that song listen to "End of Me" (one of the best songs) by Marion Raven.  Now WITHOUT going "to see" who wrote and produced that song...take a guess...  Just like "Break You", "End of Me" is a rock sound with great intensity and lots of electric guitar and similar music "style".  Now unless you have already "cheated", do you know who wrote "End of Me"?  It was Marion, Max and Rami.  More IMPORTANTLY, do you know who PRODUCED "End of Me"? it was Max and Rami and I SWEAR, the first time I heard "End of Me" I thought it was produced by Max and LUKE - but it's NOT....

So what THIS tells me is that Max REALLY is the one who is producing the majority of these tracks (his name comes FIRST) when he works with Luke or Rami.  In fact, I see Rami as more of a side co-producer in POP songs NOT ROCK at all.  I completely fail to see "Rami's contribution" to the production of "End of Me".  So if Luke really was not involved AT ALL in the production of "End of Me", then Max Martin should have been given FULL CREDIT for the production of that song.  

Anyway, whether it be Kelly Clarkson, BSB, Bo Bice, Ashley, Pink, The Veronicas, etc..) I see Max's name first and then Luke.  Max is the MAIN producer.  Now I am not discredting Luke in any way, he does an AMAZING job with Max and the songs are awesome, but I really thought that "End of Me" was co-produced with Luke because it has that musical "feel" to it and I was really shocked when I found out he had no part at all.  There many other examples but I am sure you get the idea.

If there are other songs where Max and Luke work together and Luke is the primary composer, please let me know, I would like to have further discussion on this...

max deserves to be written first on the credits cuz he had created history for the singers he worked with like (britney spears,backstreet boys) and was the main reason for their success



i wonder where he learned music and how to produce,and i'm curious to know what musical instruments he palys.

Quote from: ahmed on September 16, 2007, 12:59:14 AM


i wonder where he learned music and how to produce

He learned how to produce from DENNIZ. Plain & simple. He was into music before he met Denniz obviously, because he was in that crappy It's Alive band, but Denniz is solely the reason for his producing knowledge & pop success. He's the one who took him under his wing in the beginning when he knew virtually NOTHING, and taught him everything Max knows.

have u ever wondered if any of Max Martin's lyrics reflect any personal side of him?

yeah, I have wondered this too. I suppose we'll never know.