How much production is Max actually doing nowadays?

[sweetmelody]

I've read/heard that he's more of the melody/topline guy, but I was wondering how much production he's actually involved in when he works with Luke, Shellback, etc? Trying to figure out what Max is controlling behind the scenes!

[RoyFan]

Well something that might help is the song  "Please don't leave me" by Pink - which Max produced all on his own I believe if you go by Wikipedia.  So what that says to me
is that he's still very capable of producing a good sounding record.  I think he contributed some of the keyboard stuff on "Since U Been Gone" , specifically those short, single note
hits right before the 2nd verse starts

It's funny I was also wondering the exact same thing, cause I had also heard he does melody a lot on Katy's stuff and I believe on Kelly's stuff as well.  What was your source for him
being the melody guy?

I know that a lot of the Luke stuff, Luke does the basic track with Benny Blanco sometimes starting the song off with Drum Beats (California Girls, Dynamite, Tik Tok)
So the Teenage Dream album stuff (all 12 hits !! ) were mostly Luke in terms of drums, guitars, keyboards, and other production.  But in my mind it's such a miracle how Max and Luke found each other as writers.  I think in 50 years they'll be looked at in the same light as Lennon/McCartney.   What a chemistry they have!!  NONE of those songs would be the same if you take away 1 of them from it.

[B Steady]

Well something that might help is the song  "Please don't leave me" by Pink - which Max produced all on his own I believe if you go by Wikipedia.  So what that says to me
is that he's still very capable of producing a good sounding record.

FYI: Drums, Guitar, Bass, Keyboards, Omnichord – Shellback

[j.fco.morales]

FYI: Drums, Guitar, Bass, Keyboards, Omnichord – Shellback

That's additional production, right?

[RoyFan]

Wow, awesome I thought it was Luke who went uncredited for doing guitars on "Please Don't"

Where did you read it? on the album notes?

wonder why they wouldn't credit him for production - I guess he just played following Max's basic outline of chords and melody.
Still these days often "arranging parts" (like Shellback did here) and technical sound engineering (what Max did I guess) usually go under the same umbrella..

[Polarmachine]

In this case I guess Shellback just played what Max told him to play, otherwise he would get songwriting credit. Max often hires studio musicians, but just because you play on a record doesn't mean you should get songwriting or production credit.

And just because Shellback played almost every instrument in this case doesn't mean he arranged the track.

[RoyFan]

but you agree that Shellback created/arranged parts WITHIN the chord framework by Max?

It would sound Extremely different if it was a different player.  Within arranging, a guitar player adds different notes, different voicings.

I think it's a bit cheating Shellback out of a producer credit.  Producers affect the SOUND of a song, and this case Shellback really affected it

[Polarmachine]

there's a chance that Max only had the chords and Shellback made up the exact guitar riff, but we can't know. maybe Max came up with it himself and then asked Shellback to play it a bit cleaner?

do you think that all the other musicians on Max records should get production credit? Like on the early cheiron stuff they had tons of musicians playing.

[RoyFan]

No I don't think those musicians from the early stages should get production credit -

But in Shellback's case, on this particular tune - He played Everything, and I think it's highly unlikely that Max had that riff.
I've listened to A LOT of Max's Stuff, both stuff he produced alone, and with all his collaborators. 

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely one talented genius and I wish I had half his talent.  But the particular style of the guitar playing on that song, not just the riff, the "since u been gone" style rhythm voicings as well, aren't typical Max.

I do agree on the keyboards - there Max may of definitely given Shell more specific ideas since Max is pretty competent on keys.

[AlexanderLaBrea]

Being hired or "hired" to play guitar, drums etc. on a record and to put your own professional twist on it is not producing. That is what a session players job is. Just because a drummer adds a cool drum fill or decides to play a verse on the toms or whatever doesn't mean he/she should have producer/writing credits. They get paid for that, then they leave. In this case, Shellback was most likely not involved other than Max asking him for help to lay down a couple of tracks on the song. If he however would have started to arrange and change chords, adding loops whatever, then it's another deal. My guess is Shellback was working on something else maybe and Max asking him to play as he's a great guitarist.

[RoyFan]

ok but to your point of if "if he arranged or changed chords" - that goes to what I was saying about the very Luke ("since u been gone" for one example) guitar voicing he's doing during the verses.. I'm sure you hear what I'm talking about since it sounds like you're a musician.

I'd consider that arranging - I guess by your definition it's not production,  you're right, but would you agree it's arranging?   in other words, where's your line for making part your own, and arranging a part?

Anyway, I think for the reason I wrote above, and also the actual guitar hook that repeats through out the song, that he definitely rose to the level of arranging here -


The other thing that really intrigues me about this track:
I've never heard a Max solo production that sounds anything like this style.  Maybe that's why I'm giving ShellB so much credit.   In my mind it's borrowing a lot from

a) "Who Knew"
b) certain subtle guitar ideas/aesthetic from the Verse of "since u been gone"

So I guess maybe Max was influenced by Luke for this in the production and writing - I realize they co-write "Who Knew", but instrumentally I think it was more Luke.
I guess that's what they mean when they say that Max's genius is being a "chameleon" of different styles