Inside-info: CHEIRON Songwriting Techniques and "Rules"

[ununtitled]

Hi guys!

Does anyone here on the forum know anything about the songwriting/production techniques/formulas/rules that the Cheiron used? Yeah, I guess many of you are thinking; "There is no rules etc ..."

I think that there is no way that every producer that came out of Cheiron (Max Martin, Rami Yacoub, Kristian Lundin, Andreas Carlsson etc.) could've had this enormous success without having some fundamental tricks or formula up their sleeve.
By techniques/formulas/rules I mean stuff like "You should try not to have more than 3 melodic parts" or "The chorus should hit in after 40 seconds" or "The verse melody ideally should not contain tonic - so it builds up tension to be released in the chorus"
... I think you get it!

So, what did Denniz Pop teach the guys to have in mind when aiming for a great pop song?

[shisho]

I think there are. Listen to all their songs, analyze them and write down the techniques. They use almost the same formula.

I have a question though... what do you mean by "You should try not to have more than 3 melodic parts"?

/Mel

[B Steady]

I think there are. Listen to all their songs, analyze them and write down the techniques. They use almost the same formula.

I have a question though... what do you mean by "You should try not to have more than 3 melodic parts"?

/Mel

Maybe he meant verse / chorus / mid8

[georg_e]

               It's referring to keeping different melodies to a minimum......read somewhere recently where Max said the listener can only handle a couple of melody ideas, so stick to just a few.  Think of "Hot 'n Cold" for example......

[shisho]

So he probably means motifs. Isn't normally the rule of thumb in pop songs to use one motif per song which is developed across the song?

[georg_e]

So he probably means motifs. Isn't normally the rule of thumb in pop songs to use one motif per song which is developed across the song?

I don't think they necessarily have to be developed across the song -- they CAN be of course -- but every song is different. I really think just keeping in mind the general concept of simplicity is all that's needed :-)

[j.fco.morales]

Max did some amazing variations with the choruses post middle 8, same chords, same words, different melody.

[Raul_esp]

Very interesting , I think 3 differentes melodies in a pop song is the perfect , maybe 4 if we count the bridge that sometimes is a new melody.

[B Steady]

well, the question is: what is a melody? you can count a whole verse as one melody but you can also say, only 2 bars are one melody and then the next melody is coming in

[j.fco.morales]

I think it's better to identify the different parts of the song first: A - A1 - B - A - A1 - B - C - B x2

[Raul_esp]

well, the question is: what is a melody? you can count a whole verse as one melody but you can also say, only 2 bars are one melody and then the next melody is coming in

For me a melody is an group of chords that are repeated Succesively , In a pop song the verse usually cointains an only melody , The chorus and Middle 8 the same.
You can to have too a melody with one chord but I prefer a melody longer.

[j.fco.morales]

For me a melody is an group of chords that are repeated Succesively , In a pop song the verse usually cointains an only melody , The chorus and Middle 8 the same.
You can to have too a melody with one chord but I prefer a melody longer.

Actually, there are many examples of amazing melodies with long chords or little to none variations: Anything Could Happen by Ellie Goulding is a great example.

[ununtitled]

Cool! Anyone else? 

[ununtitled]

??

[J_A24]

#1 rule: There are no rules.