Apart from one or two songs on Taylor Swift's 1989, "Love Me Like You Do," and "Can't Feel My Face," I find most of his songs (in the last 2-3 years) mediocre. In my opinion, the best songs on Ariana Grande's album aren't even produced by him. Not to mention, the awful "Focus" which was left on the cutting room floor. The common denominator I find in his worst songs is that he co-produces them with Ilya.
But it's more than that. I feel like Max has lost something. I was even disappointed with JT's (of whom I'm a big fan of) "Can't Stop the Feeling." I realize that my saying this coincides with arguably Martin's most successful period as a songwriter. Does anyone else feel this way or are my ears losing the ability to recognize great pop songs? I wish Max would work with Luke again. They seemed to get the best out of each other, but fat chance of that happening :'(
It's just you. You are getting old and whiny. Last day is better than next day. I forget how this psychological phenom is called.
Song is still an ART, as I remember, art never meant to be liked by everyone.
I don't like JT song too. I also hate similar Uptown Funk. But the reason is in me, not in bad composers.
If you love all 12 songs from album with first listen — it's a marketing, a social virus, etc., like 1989, it's not about music, it's emotional attachment to wisely made up artist's image.
Focus > any 1989 song.
I disagree, however I think the newer songs might take a bit longer it get into.
With JT's "Can't Stop This Feeling", it took me a long long time to get into it, several days but then it just clicked and now it's stuck in my head the whole time and it might be one of my favourites of recent years.
The same thing happened with Ariana Grande's "Into You", didn't really get it but now I love it so much.
I do miss Max/Luke writing together though.
Quote from: Rebecca on May 22, 2016, 12:03:22 PMI do miss Max/Luke writing together though.
+1.
And I think: if you don't like something, why waste time and energy throwing shade?
I gotta say my fav Max periods are the Cheiron era (obviously), and then 2008-2012.
Between 08-12 he had it going with both Lukes camp (Katy, Kesha, Britney etc.) and also made the sickest hits with Shellback. Golden era for me.
I used to think the best Max era was Luke's but I think Max is now at his peak with Ali, I cant tell how much I love that sound.
That said, I do love what Mattoon & Robin are doing a lot!
I partially agree that the songs are not as good as they used to be. I think that beside Max and Shellback the Wolf Cousins guys are more track oriented and they tend to write songs to the (ready to go) music track. It lacks that big, beautiful, catchy melodies Max or Shellback would start the songwriting process with. Just my speculation. Still the best team in the world though.
Quote from: bugmenot on May 22, 2016, 10:58:43 AM
It's just you. You are getting old and whiny. Last day is better than next day. I forget how this psychological phenom is called.
Ahahaha. So true.
"Can't Stop The Feeling!" is beautiful, "Into You" is one of his biggest bangers EVER, "Just Like Fire" is classic hook-filled magic, "Hands To Myself" is deeply weird, very different for Max, yet a complete drug effect. Don't even get me started on the brilliance of "Cool For The Summer". One of my favourite Max songs ever.
The production work on 1989, Delirium and Dangerous Woman (his biggest projects of last few years) is crisp, detailed, interesting, as melodic as ever, really addictive, etc.
So no, Max is not falling off at all.
Quote from: uberweiss on May 29, 2016, 11:32:57 AM
Ahahaha. So true.
"Can't Stop The Feeling!" is beautiful, "Into You" is one of his biggest bangers EVER, "Just Like Fire" is classic hook-filled magic, "Hands To Myself" is deeply weird, very different for Max, yet a complete drug effect. Don't even get me started on the brilliance of "Cool For The Summer". One of my favourite Max songs ever.
The production work on 1989, Delirium and Dangerous Woman (his biggest projects of last few years) is crisp, detailed, interesting, as melodic as ever, really addictive, etc.
So no, Max is not falling off at all.
q.e.d.
Thank you, bye.
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Quote from: Dr. Fleischman on May 28, 2016, 01:23:10 PM
It lacks that big, beautiful, catchy melodies Max or Shellback would start the songwriting process with.
This. Max/Luke/Shellback were like the dream team: cool sounding vocal melody interval jumps paired with counterpoint chord progressions that hit the dopamine jackpot over and over. While the newer songs aren't as melodically satisfying to me as the Cheiron and Max/Luke years, what I think Max is doing now is super interesting.
I think Max Martin is deepening his craft with his new output. Shorter melodic hooks that are more like earworms meant to surface in your head a day or so after you've heard the song.
Here are some examples:
Ellie Goulding - On My Mind why-i-got-you-on-my-mind
you-think-you-know-some-body
Demi Lovato - Cool For The Summerdon't tell your mother-kissed one another
die for each other-we're cool for the summer
Taylor Swift - Shake It Offthat's-what-people-say-mm-mm
cuz-the-players-gonna-play-play-play-play-play
Justin Timberlake - Can't Stop The FeelingNothing-I-can-see-but-you
when-you-dance-dance-dance
Feeling good-good-creeping-up-on-you
So just-dance-dance-dance
Ariana Grande - Into YouSo baby come light me up - and maybe I'll let you on it
A little bit dangerous -but baby that's how I want it
Cause I'm so - into you - into you - into you
All of the above are short melodic phrases that seem primed to be hummed or sung, possibly throughout the day without really knowing what the words are at all. The ability to execute this complicated type of melodic and rhythmic simplicity is one of the things I find so impressive about Martin's craft.
Have you ever seen a little kid running around singing part of a song over and over (usually with total nonsense lyrics)? I think Max Martin is tapping into this pre-language hook center of our brains - at least in terms of making his most recent productions memorable to the widest possible audience. These are hooks that are on a level of stickiness where they could probably be sung in any language and still get stuck in your head after only minimal or passive listening.
On a totally different note - this is actually my first post on here and I'm excited to be a part of this place! Been lurking for years haha..
You couldn't explain that any better!
It's the rhythm of the melody.
I have a whole theory after reading the syllabe math thread in this forum.
Quote from: Addicted2Melody on May 31, 2016, 03:06:58 AM
Have you ever seen a little kid running around singing part of a song over and over (usually with total nonsense lyrics)? I think Max Martin is tapping into this pre-language hook center of our brains - at least in terms of making his most recent productions memorable to the widest possible audience. These are hooks that are on a level of stickiness where they could probably be sung in any language and still get stuck in your head after only minimal or passive listening.
On a totally different note - this is actually my first post on here and I'm excited to be a part of this place! Been lurking for years haha..
I just saw a young girl today singing the hook in Rihanna's "Work" which, while not written by Max, totally taps into that nonsense melodic catchiness; a repetitive hook, usually in a staccato rhythm.
And (official) welcome to the forum!
Thanks, I love everyone's descriptions! All true.
and now I know what q.e.d is.
Quote from: Rebecca on May 31, 2016, 01:12:42 PM
and now I know what q.e.d is.
:D glad you learned something from this thread :)
They say Jazz - music can change your life.
Quote from: NeutronSynergy on June 02, 2016, 08:46:07 AM
They say Jazz - music can change your life.
This is a very true statement :-) Interesting that Max says he's listening to a lot of jazz these days ( in his Polar Prize interview with Jan Gradvall).
I do feel like they have had some weak bridges as of late. Weaker than normal. Max is obviously amazing but some of the bridges can seem lazy sometimes. Like Just like Fire and Shake it off are same lazy chunk just thrown in to get it over 3 mins.
Quote from: PaulMcCartney on June 10, 2016, 10:39:00 PM
I do feel like they have had some weak bridges as of late. Weaker than normal. Max is obviously amazing but some of the bridges can seem lazy sometimes. Like Just like Fire and Shake it off are same lazy chunk just thrown in to get it over 3 mins.
This makes sense his newer stuff doesn't have that climatic build as much as it did a few years ago. Smoother and more rhythmic.