Selena Gomez 'Kill em with kindness'

[NeutronSynergy]

Writers: Antonina Armato , Tim James , Benjamin Levin,  Dave Audé , Selena Gomez

Producer(s):   
Rock Mafia ,Benny Blanco, R3drum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHP5MKgK0o8

What is going on? these dance songs just keep on coming, have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?

[j.fco.morales]

There's a thread about Selena's album

[NeutronSynergy]

Super. but this topic could be about this single only.  as this was released to streaming audience (mainly youtube) only couple days ago.

So what you think about Selenas' Voice - vocal work or performance, specially in this song ?

the lyrics and the message - isn't it quite striking for 23 years old?

[B Steady]

What is going on? these dance songs just keep on coming, have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?

how does this make sense? what does this have to do with cheiron?

[nanofives]

Dance music being incorporated into pop music it's not a new trend anymore. It's part of the game already.
It's the perfect moment for Max and his team to explore new grounds.

[NeutronSynergy]

how does this make sense? what does this have to do with cheiron?

err..

"Other music and off-topic »
Other music, producers, songwriters, artists, releases and business news "

Robyn Fenty?

[B Steady]

err..

"Other music and off-topic »
Other music, producers, songwriters, artists, releases and business news "

Robyn Fenty?

err..

"have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?"

and what do you mean with R. Fenty?

[nanofives]

err..

Are we talking about something like melodies being repeated structurally like the music from the old Cheiron formula?

[NeutronSynergy]

err..

"have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?"

and what do you mean with R. Fenty?

OK. this must be your unique sarcasm. a good one.

But this is relevant place to talk about this and Robyn Fenty is very Cheiron related.

[NeutronSynergy]

..as dance music is very relevant associated with Cheiron.

[NeutronSynergy]

err..

Are we talking about something like melodies being repeated structurally like the music from the old Cheiron formula?

Good point about the systematic use of structural melodies in familiar repetitive sense, but the Cheiron formula is more about in question and of focus here.

[B Steady]

OK. this must be your unique sarcasm. a good one.

But this is relevant place to talk about this and Robyn Fenty is very Cheiron related.

well yes, my sarcasm is unique and brilliant BUT you completely misunderstood me throughout the whole thread cause I wasn't being sarcastic

1st you were asking "have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?"
that's why I was asking "what does this have to do with cheiron?"
what you obviously understood as "why do you post this in a cheiron forum", hence your hint with the sub-forum
that's why I quoted your first post again in order to show you why I was asking "what does this have to do with cheiron?"
obviously you still didn't get me

so, my point is: this song sounds nothing like cheiron

and I'm still wondering why you put Rihanna's name in here out of nowhere!?

now it's your turn

[NeutronSynergy]

well yes, my sarcasm is unique and brilliant BUT you completely misunderstood me throughout the whole thread cause I wasn't being sarcastic

Don't have a clue about it in this context , since you underline it not being sarcasm -  but let's us share love by loving ourself

and I didn't misunderstood you because that information you input - can be really taken with the following output as I respond. 
Only now I do have the possibility for another view and review it.  But since you insist -  that I had some other impression
than your comment with sarcasm - then what did I misunderstood withouth sarcasm ? Because you don't specify.

I already answered .

1st you were asking "have Americans re-discover what Cheiron's did twenty years ago?"

Just a moment's discovery - I shall elaborate a bit later.
(with that equation that you probably meant something that I had or something else -what I had in mind in the first place.)

that's why I was asking "what does this have to do with cheiron?"
what you obviously understood as "why do you post this in a cheiron forum", hence your hint with the sub-forum
that's why I quoted your first post again in order to show you why I was asking "what does this have to do with cheiron?"
obviously you still didn't get me

Good thing ( if so ) and I do 'get you' - since now we can go back to the original topic and to the emerged interest about the re-discovery clue.

so, my point is: this song sounds nothing like cheiron

Thats one opinion (with that understanding that tastes are different) but I disagree very much.
For my lense this song as procution (not only genre-wise, or typical Cheiron lyrics with double meanings.  eg.'it's a beautiful life' )
is very much alike what Martin Sandberg did with Ace of base with their later success. -

but more than that  this single, this perticular song - reminds (+ the mood, the vibe. the atmosphere) the Denniz pop 1993 - produced Ace of base
Even the whistle is there!?

and I'm still wondering why you put Rihanna's name in here out of nowhere!?

I told you already. I suppose it wouldn't be the coolest thing to bend the spoon like this - but since you underline the logical following
being different with your comment - than the information you gave...or that you insist that you meant something else?..

Then :

"Robyn Fenty
..as dance music is very relevant associated with Cheiron."

(is associated with Cheiron. as is Selena Gomez and what mostly : DANCE music is very much associated with Cheiron. = Very much to do with Cheiron/Makes sense)

The R.Fenty is more abbreviation. if followed by the logic you just described - it should have point out that "anything is relevant in off-topic ,"
or any symptomps originally posted are 'as relevant' to the given proposal/thesis..
like Robyn Fenty with the conclusion that Selena Gomez and Dance music is Cheiron related specially in this sub-forum..

with that abbreviation. such logic would have been viable  (and it is) since for a person with nearly 2000 posts - it's not uncommon at first place ( for anyone ) to think and reply :  that how on earth Dance music wouldn't be associated/got to do something with cheiron and to this topic as well make perfectly sense - for what you were asking in Cheiron forum

But back to the meaning of what I meant about the 're-discovery' , since you asked about something (Dance-music) what Cheiron's did for living
and what that has got to do with Cheiron..

as there was already  another post here pointing out about 'dance-formula' and structural song writing.
so what comes to 'have americans re-discovered what Cheirons did 20 - years ago'
..I shall elaborate more a bit later.

now it's your turn

No turns here - just conversation. (maybe in a hurry) , but either way
You first.

+

I guess it's time for a joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yX_1gJ_51M

[NeutronSynergy]

Dance music being incorporated into pop music it's not a new trend anymore. It's part of the game already.

I might have a different view -  they tried to make it big with EDM - labeling...but the reality of the outcome is different than expected record sales.
While dance definitely is a part (or in the core of it) of the game - IMO Dance hasn't been like really big since 90's (when it was like epidemic) and specially not in the US market. if that changes - then serious money floods can be expected.

Of course the reason why people buys stuff is more problem of the business - department.

[NeutronSynergy]

Yep. violin is being incorporated to classic music in 16'th hundred century (slowly) but it first emerged at 8'th centry in Persia

I guess something that made 300 million units solds -  deserves some observation
First : You might want to take a cup of coffee..

There's been a few dance-oriented singles here and there , but Dance coming big like it first did would be a change to what it was
(US on top ten) when it was like epidemic.

as Dance was very hot in the Europe at 90's no matter how horrible or excellent it was , there hasn't been a dance boom like that since of it. nope.
(Maybe some occasional stripes in asian or east-american market..maybe) , i won't loose my sleep if im not 100% accurate here.

So are American based producers now start to cash in with it? Because hit-level dance isn't necessary easy to produce , but on a song level
it's cheaper than many else.

well that was the question originally - so in that sense it has been 'incorporated' but
not fully delivered , as it mainly comes from the same boutique ,

Let's elaborate a bit :

Dance originally derived from US at late 80's . from house music and pre-techno , acts like technotronic, and early electro = Kraftwerk.
However dance - music by a measure of amount- is definitey an European thing.
(Pandora, 2 unlimited, E-type,specially Ace of Base , Rednex,Aqua...Dear lord..).

As format of producing it shares similarity with the Disco music back at 70's. - and this is what Swedish success with dance was all about
to bring 70's popular american Disco-music format back as American's had stopped using that as a cash cow

(middle class people really consumed and partied with disco culture) This was made possible by new digital tools.
Pro-tools,Atari,JV1080,M1,dx7,cd-priting, Sampling :Enter people like Denniz-Sandberg , James Sanger.

It's very possible that some european (famed or not) songwriters even now don't realize that it was the machines that opened
the box of jewels. eg.Playing with some Roland or Korg Hardware- specially in still soviet shadow suffering scandinavia (Soviet kept prices high,taxes, exporting and delivering equipment -
specially with studio techonolgy) was like stepping to another planet - to any person. Remember when you saw star wars first time at 80's?
In Europe - the effect was probably greater with new music tech back then . now there is synthesizer or sampler in every cell phone around.

+ everybody still remembers how U.S prices specially with music technology
kept manyg things as a wet dream down in scandinavia. That changed when digital-instruments - the possibilites of recording with computer began, it was genre-wise logical that previous analog DJ-music found a home in Computers as computing power rise.

Thomann prices would never have happened without the collapse of the soviet and expansion of EU. (affecting to Norway and Sweden as well)

but..
People just..
don't think it that way anymore..


When dealing the subject of creating new phenomenas in music business at early 90's the other option would have been to write with band-instrument's
and try to top out something like ABBA --> not gonna happen (Supposedly Roxette did that. other than that there was 'Europe' doing their Bon Jovi - thing. ie the slot was taken)
This wasn't good for 'it's alive' and people bought DR.Alban

it's the way the business works and how market reacts and as we all know it : Abba went extremely tight with it.

So with  "it's alive" ,- they actually pumped out e v e r y t h i n g - they could into a hard-rock-heavy-metal-groove thing..
and it wasn't enough - why? they would have to 'compete' (even thoug a lame term of experssion here with rock) with Bon Jovi- Aerosmith , Metallica, Van Halen,Def Leppard
--> not gonna happen .

- Not only simply because only american's had the magic/knowledge to do rock n roll like really big (or because of localized tradition) but also
starting from really special analog harware investmenst With all the Neves and alikes pushing it for gain stagin , innovation . " stadium rock magnitude" and just to deliver
huge sounds - they had the tech ,the talent , the vision, (all ingredients needed for success according to James Cameron) as history knows - starting from Elvis.

It was also soon when ac/dc and Guns n Roses would have to pave way for completely another kind of trends --> Swedish dance and it's fusion to re-defined pop.
(Of course new trends emerging from Us too)

and this is where the 'bread n butter' comes in with dance-music by Denniz pop and similar enterprisers at europe when whole studio frontier was turned upside down.
, so the alpha versio of the cheiron started to develop something of their own - in all flavors , as in
Sweden one production culture was paving away for another (younger generations) anyway...this was 5-7 years before Britney or Backstreet boys hit amazingly big.

First fruit was Ace of base (And Dr.Alban) Ace of Base being a serious hit in the U.S  + a lot Of dance music associated with Cheiron

You could say that 'they hold the recipe' even today , which is point nr 1. with this writing which Gottwald/Martin extended - ,
later on it's just been polarized between different team-work. (Ironically it was -DANCE format that recycled some of the ABBA re-release,
simply because Swedes got so enormos production machines going with it, )

later on  - You know back in that time - not all people believed that Martin Sandberg could produce something like Bon Jovi.

'it's my life' was a new coming, I remember that in US - they were considered to be yesterdays news.. by some
the new Bon Jovi - if you dig up the backing tracks -  it's a party song of an rock band in a cheiron pop format - still sounds rock (maybe a bit something like
Def Leppard) and that was huge - Bon jovi was delivered to younger generations around millenium- people (mainly young) who actually consume Dance music and
listened Britney Spears- made By the same factory - bought Bon jovi from the in house producers who had created a cosmetic - synthetic pop realm bigger than Bon jovi ,
then delivered it to thebuying audience who probably would have never bought it otherwise. that was a clever one.

After that Dance (As in my book Eurodance is Dance , which is one point of this message . this is so important that you can loose one month sleeps thinking about it)

So after 90's dance music has been incorporated in some singles by Cheiron related instances to world wide success artist -
not necessarily entire albums as a total success. you could say that *they* hold it even today. While american's could say to hold 'the formula'
for hip hop or action movies in production sense.
( after 90's example of dance fusion by Cheiron related = eg.Singles with Gottwald / M.Sandberg to Britney,  Jlopez or some previous Rihanna for example)
and there is a big difference's between production machines.

Other than that americans - and american based song writers haven't pushed so intensively this type of material.
as mentioned: there's nothing compared to that Dance boom originally from europe. 

So now there is at least 4-6 different productions by different writers -producers - mainly based at U.S doing music that in my book is Dance. (and all the fancy names
EDM. electro-house. are just skin layered on top  a clear 4/4 bass kick hit per quarter note = dance)

Can't stop the feeling
This is what you came for
Final song
Kill em with kindness.

all dance music - all in the American , top - ten .

So what is going on? 'maybe nothing'..or it could be coming.

Americans - if you see the competition and economics outside the few fusioned record
companies (incuding the fact that there are still region codes in everything) ..

then you could say that originally Americans definitely missed the boat with dance.
that is over 200 million record sales, at that time American (IN MTV-top 10 sense)  was concentrated cashing the remains of grunge boom - going into nu-metal. and
making rap/hip-hop even bigger / what was considered trendy and new stuff.

I'll skip the whole EDM - thing, it's just marketing - even those most biggest hits labeled by 'EDM' comes from Cheiron/Europe tree originating from their dance formula.

Proof? well EDM- has actually been a big thing for selling sotware and equipment by cheap digital manufacturing lines

"In May 2015 the International Music Summit's Business Report estimated that the global electronic music industry had reached nearly $6.9 billion in value;
the count included music sales, events revenue (including nightclubs and festivals),
the sale of DJ equipment and software, and other sources of revenue.
The report also identified several emerging markets for electronic dance music,
including East Asia, India, and South Africa, credited primarily to investment by domestic, as well as American and European interests.
A number of major festivals also began expanding into Latin America.[79]"

Over 85 percent of that figure isn't from record/streming sales .

To repeat it : the dance singles popping here and there - after millenium - of major names/Artist are many times produced by the same boutique -cheiron related producers
from Sweden to this date.  That's their bread n butter - secret . and it's fusion to POP.

Ace of base - sold over 60 million albums
Even aqua sold over 33 million albums.
modern talking sold over 60 million records
E-Type sold 17 millions
Dr Alban 16 million
Dj Bobo 16 million records
2 unlimitied 20 million records..
Haddaway 28 million..
Scooter 25 million..

+ at least 8-15 similar acts. all european - majority of them made in Sweden then in Germany

So after 90's there has been only couple times seemingly (In america top ten) that dance music
would be rising it's head again, mostly because of the mentioned points previously.

So if american's ('in house' american economy tied production facilities) catch it - there will be another such boom.
Then we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. Nothing put a push of an sequencer -IF so then any industry insiders must see it.

Self explationary it may be: But in the frame of what sells it isn't necessarily "the best quality" that wins - so to speak.
this actually defines ALL music what we listen and consume. Most of the people only know the stuff that they are made to.

- A party culture expanding will create an order for the music. You don't exactly see people with classic music education lining up for a Dance - concert.
Same thing with all 'genious invetions' companies made regarding something like nu-metal...my God...it they have all the power...

and on the other hand - the business side really necessarily wouldn't care what it is.
What is economys idea : profit dictates: Make cheap as possible - fast - with lot's of incoming - as long as they buy it , on the other
hand good music is a force that requires to break such rules and barriers .

It's quite cheap to say that "For marketing - all you need is the image" ,  or probably non-music related phenomena to sell it but
the digital music equipment revolution needed the material as bad as the studios needed the hadware, and continues to do so.

I find it interesting to speculate that if it's all about making something to sell -
why not jazz or prog then? Because it's expensive - and despite some of the new technology driven social-media cloud infrastructure myths -
Those musicians who can knock it out on those rounds - seriously - are rare to found. = very expensive.

Supposedly one has to compromise with pop which is fusion.
Dance music didn't suddenly appeared without a reason all by itself.

there were serious forces pushig it, it's a promotion thing,  for example Queen did it ALL by themself ,
but at the beginning of the 80's they had a bigger caravan (witha air planes, ships and all)
of truck's for their live set than rolling stone's. They promoted it all by themselves.
Without it - it would have been obsolote as Dance music would have never came
without the record companies seeking for new manufacturing cost-efficiency.

the emergin studios at 90's did the same thing as previous rock-giants (or Beatles) but with a fraction of the budget of it.
That was a clever one too , it's very looooooooong time as any 'band alone'
have made a brekthru by creating a movement around of it. there is always the middle hand guy somewhere.

There are still in america some of the biggest production instances
who thinks that everything should be done purely analog - even in music mastering (not gonna take an opinion about that), not only because
of the aesthetics but simply because they invested so much to analog gear , and who don't want someone to fly from europe just to play with synthesizers.

So this come's back to the speculation 'have americans re-discovered what Cheiros did 23 years ago".
it's competition in production level no matter how much the multi-national record companies want's to legitimate their monopolies.

Take a look in here:
http://www.billboard.com/photos/6598029/most-powerful-artists-dance-music/9

what I refer dance as being trendy : even if some "EDM" singles have streamed 358 million times , escalatin to 1.7 million sold copies -
- it's still nothing compared to how big dance was as it was really a 'trend' of it's own ..not just a loop or arp you threw in from sequencer-built in libraries
.this also backs up my EDM-estimation and the figures above  (EDM being more marketing. and that Dance while being partially incorporated hasn't
been like 200 millionbig since 90's..and American market never saw it. yet..)

5 dance hits in a top ten mainly US - produced - right now - what is going on ?

The message you suddenly hear by listening these are : Dance likes you and you like to dance. sponsored by Coca cola.

Dance - music is a perfect meter of what music industry is about - it has all the variables of economy relative scalability , because
it's so heavily manufactured since even if no one admits to listen it - everybody have heard it.
that's because record companies (or new private bussinesses 26 years ago . exactly the same time when digitalization begun)
found a winning formula - to compete - and then force fed it thru the radio.

"It's easy to say producing this music is equal to pushing a button in the studio.
But that's like saying writing a novel is a simple push of a button on your typewriter."

- Denniz pop

* By Americanos generally I underline meaning those instances who really like to kept the ball inside the boarders' , avoiding spilling
in-house jewels too much before production as a business practice.
as many parts of music business (in general) is mentally a bit conservative.