The Songwriters > New Songs

Ava Max debut album 'Heaven & Hell'

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Feelgoodlies:
I definitely think it's a good pop record especially in this era where we barely hear pop music. She saved 2020 for me.

bugmenot:
I see you define a term (eg. pure pop) by describing what this term is not. Which is an awful and easy way to fall into logical fallacy.

Snipes3000:
I don't like the album. But I don't care about my own opinion. What pop is is ALWAYS determined by the youngsters, never by people passed their mid twenties (like me). Their taste becomes irrelevant for major labels to capitalise on and their taste is often fixed to the standards of their own era. Would the youngsters like this Ava Max stuff? I don't think so. The album lacks so much progressions..... resolving..... in the chorus. The chorus is not a 'world on its own'. Anyone here thinking that this music is exactly what the youngsters would want at this time?

nanofives:
The Cirkut formula and Ava's lyrics can be stripped down to a very simple record. It also shows how little personality she has.
I don't think new generations differs from old generations, I see this album as a Femme Fatale kind of thing, where the concept is weak but overall it's singles-driven. I've seen many critics defining the album as "manufactured pop" which at some point might be another way of saying "pure pop", and this is not something new, even less something from this era. I can compare this to other simple albums like Katy Perry's teenage dream, or Carly Rae Jepsen's Kiss.
She really got away with the idea of dividing the album in two parts, which is a very basic concept that I think it's rushed while she was recording the songs, maybe that's why she leave songs out of the tracklist that were almost identical in formula to the ones that made to the album, but critics apparently loved that.
The critics thing it's interesting because the album is very similar to Katy Perry's smile which is more insightful at some points in my opinion, but critics didn't like as much, but Ava got quite good ones despite the lack of personality everyone mentions.
In the end, I just keep seeing this as an opportunity for Cirkut to grow out of the Luke's formula. He's not there yet, but it's a start.

j.fco.morales:

--- Quote from: nanofives on September 30, 2020, 03:01:00 AM ---I see this album as a Femme Fatale kind of thing, where the concept is weak but overall it's singles-driven.
--- End quote ---

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT! So disrespectful!
Femme Fatale is a FANTASTIC RECORD.


--- Quote from: nanofives on September 30, 2020, 03:01:00 AM ---In the end, I just keep seeing this as an opportunity for Cirkut to grow out of the Luke's formula. He's not there yet, but it's a start.
--- End quote ---

Yep, I totally agree with this. At first I thought Cirkut was Luke's ghost producer but after hearing Luke himself producing pop I realized he is great at programming, arranging, guitar arrangements and AMAZING ear for chord progressions. BUT I think he's more of an editor: he know what's needed and how to get it done.



Plus, I wonder why they didn't include this beautifully arranged song. It's a co write with Jon Bellion and his team and he's like HUGE now.

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