Dr Luke Production vs Max Martin Production

[JackSnr]

Hi everyone.

Most of Max's biggest hits in the past couple of years have been in collaboration with Luke, so it's becoming increasingly harder to separate one's style from the other. This includes their production trademarks and songwriting traits.I thought it would be fun to have a discussion regarding the different techniques Max and Luke use that we so often hear blended together in one song.

For example, Luke always uses that really gravely hand clap (Dynamite, Cali Gurls, Tik) and that weird synth that does the whole wind up (Circus, Dynamite) while Max uses drums that have more snare and claps that have a sharper quality (3). Max is more likely to use nimble, softer guitars (So What, Please Don't Leave me, Whataya Want From Me, Quitter) while Luke leans more towards soft synths with heavy guitars providing rhythm (Girlfriend, I Kissed A Girl). Both however, in collaboration and independent to each other us that little whoosh thing at the beginning of every chorus. In terms of songwriting, depending on the artists, Max prefers sweeping, repetitive choruses (If I Had You, Whataya Want from Me, Friday I'll be Over You) while Luke mainly uses single note rapid-fire lines (Tik, Cali Gurls, Girlfriend, Circus). It's fun to try and pick out who uses what production techniques to try and guess who contributed what to the song. There are, of course, numerous exceptions. Wow, I feel like such a nerd writing all this! 

PS. Yay for California Gurls! Billboard #1, Max's 7th, Luke's 6th 

[Izalightblue]

Hey, JackSnr!

I was thinking about it the other day, and I agree with what you have written. They have different tecniques and styles, but when they are put together, they fit so well!

I love the softer guitars but also love heavy guitars. But have you realized when there's a heavy guitar on the song, the song production it's all Dr. Luke's, for example : I kissed a girl and Max just wrote that one. When there's a softer guitar, Max takes care of it, but divides the production and lyrics with Luke. In my opinion, it must be very interesting having a partner in songwriting that has a different style from you, and then you have who comes up with this or that idea,I'm sure Max always comes up with the melodies, since he's said this is the first thing, then the lyrics, who's gonna do what on the song, put all together and sound what they like, fitting their styles.
I wish it had a video from one of their writing/ production sessions for us to see what it is like! It would be very interesting!!

[Raul_esp]

it's very interesting, i would love see to max producing a song in the studio with dr luke.

[Feelgoodlies]

Nice topic.

There was a time where I couldn't tell the difference actually, their music does sound very similar because they have learnt from each other I guess, but I can tell when it's Max cuz he usually prefers to use harder drums while Luke loves to use electro drums, apart from that their choruses are "identically similar" like twins.

Also Max sometimes loses grip on either a verse or a chorus, meaning that sometimes when produces a song he makes the verse better than the chorus or vice versa. But when Luke loses grip on a certain song he totally loses it, I mean the beginning can be very catchy but you begin to get bored halfway through like the last Kelly Rowland song.


Bottom line, I love their electro pop and pop/rock sound  a lot!

[georg_e]

            Yes, very good topic :-)    One thing that's different from when they first wrote together just the two of them (Kelly Clarkson, Veronicas etc.) --
It's even harder now to figure out who actually writes the melodies,  because they both use alot of different writers on their tracks. Even "California Gurls", which they did together, has other songwriters involved. And even on "My Life Would Suck" they brought in another writer.  I'd actually like to hear some more songs with just the two of them involved as writers/producers -- maybe the Katy Perry album will have one.  I think they're a good 'duo', obviously!! :-)

           I think now, when they work separately, Luke is the easier of the two to instantly recognize, cus he has his 'trademarks' he uses from song to song I think even more than Max. Like that synth arpeggio thing he first used on Lady Sovereign's "Love Me Or Hate Me" -- that's on alot of his songs now. (Don't get me wrong, I love when writers have a consistent sound).  Whereas Max is a little harder to instantly recognize, for me, anyway,  although there are songs like Pink's "Boring" and "Friday I'll Be over U" that have a similar kind of almost 'dumb' guitar riff  (in a good way!) --maybe that's Shellback's vibe.

                   But I hope we'll get some more songs from just the two of them together!! :-)  Even then, though, it would be fascinating to know who wrote what on MELODIES, of like "Since U Been Gone" etc.

[JackSnr]

I totally agree. Max can adapt his sound to fit whatever artist where as Dr Luke uses a more ridged template for production depending on the genre.

[Feelgoodlies]

I wonder if Max still have the "Cheiron" instruments and melodies which made him big along with his mates, does he play them now?


How I wish he judges on a talent show or does something which makes him closer to his fans.

[NIKLAS"NiCkY"]

  Martin Sandberg MAX MARTIN is the best 

[Izalightblue]

I wonder if Max still have the "Cheiron" instruments and melodies which made him big along with his mates, does he play them now?


How I wish he judges on a talent show or does something which makes him closer to his fans.

Oh, I was thinking about it the other day!  He must have the melodies and instruments, since all that is an important part of his life, I think they mean a lot to him. 
Imagine he judging on a talent show!!! It would be so fantastic!!!  It wouldn't need to be for a whole season, even if it was like a special guest, it would be cool, we just want to see him! .

[Rebecca]

oh that would be too exciting if Max was on TV!

Re Max v Luke, I also would love to know who writes what on their songs.

[PG]

I have no insights, but I wanted to say that this is a great topic started by a fantastic post from JackSnr

[Scott Martin :)]

A lot of Dr Luke's production that i tend to recognise are the guitar riffs. I still hear flavours of what he did for Avril Lavrigne in most pop/rock songs he does today. Most of you probably know already, but Luke started as a guitarist, having played for Saturday Night Live for years.

I remember reading how Max has a trick of lifting a melody to an unexpected note - for example, 'Show Me Love' where the line goes up on 'Ive' - you're the one that IVE ever needed.

I still hear that lift, or melodic turns in most of Max's songs today - chorus or otherwise.

If you Seek Amy - in the first lines the melody lifts on; "is she smokin' up outside?" (love that bit)
Since you been Gone - "and all i ever hear you say" - great turn on the melody

There's heaps of Max songs that do that, I honestly dont know if he's responsible for that nice melodic lift, but I always think of him when i hear it. 

[Rebecca]

That's a really nice description Scott. I love that uplift too (though I had never really thought about it). I love the "is she smoking up outside" too!

[JackSnr]

I guess this begs the question: what kind of Max song would you like him to do more of? Or should we start a separate topic for that one? 

[Feelgoodlies]

I guess this begs the question: what kind of Max song would you like him to do more of? Or should we start a separate topic for that one? 

He should completely ditch this whole recycled electrop pop/rock thing and do something fresh and new, he reminds me of the Cheiron days where he and his mates kept doing the same thing until eveybody was fed up (not us of course)!

A new pop sound would be really great! Max is a great inventor!