Some of the most successful threads on this forum are the ones analysing Max songs. So I thought we could have one thread where we analyse a Max Martin song each week, and every week the title will be changed to a new song.
Like many on this site, I am a songwriter, and I think different people's opinions on the Max Martin "formula" or "technique" could be very helpful.
Analysis could include melody, intervals, lyrics, repetition, production, composition etc.
The first song we will analyse is "Love Me Like You Do" by Ellie Goulding. (14th May)
The second song we will analyse is "Scream" by Usher. (22 May)
I'll start with one of the most obvious features of the song.
The syllable repetition in the chorus is extremely hooky;
"Love me like you do, l-l-love me like you do... touch me like you do, t-t-touch me like you do"
The chord change for the "'touch me like you do" section swaps to a minor chord, giving it an emotive punch. Very effective.
Great idea! I have nothing to add at the moment, but looking forward to the responses.
The main thing that I think sets this song apart from other songs is in the bridge/mid-8 "I let you set the pace...". The part is introduced before the 2nd chorus which is a very unusual place to add a new part. I suppose it can be viewed as either a bridge that is recycled before the 3rd chorus, or a mid-8 that is pre-cycled before the 2nd. Either way is it is a very unusual structure for a pop song.
Quote from: the3rd on May 15, 2015, 01:07:35 AM
The main thing that I think sets this song apart from other songs is in the bridge/mid-8 "I let you set the pace...". The part is introduced before the 2nd chorus which is a very unusual place to add a new part. I suppose it can be viewed as either a bridge that is recycled before the 3rd chorus, or a mid-8 that is pre-cycled before the 2nd. Either way is it is a very unusual structure for a pop song.
Agreed. It's strange that it appears after the second verse but not the first.
When I first heard the song, I didn't know it was a Max song and after listening to the first minute I turned it off. It was because the first chorus is at that low octave. When I found out Max produced it, I re-listened and fell in love with it. But it's also weird to have that first chorus an octave lower than the other choruses.
I mean, it's strange for current pop music.
Back in the day the approach to songwriting was way different: different structures and more chords.
Yup, it has a more progressive kind of structure. First time I listened to it I drew some parallels with Coldplay's Paradise, and while I was not a fan of the chorus at first because of the stuttering, the chord change and "What are you waiting for" pretty much tied everything together and brought it home.
I think that's what I don't like about the song: the stuttering.
It's catchy but predictable.
Quote from: j.fco.morales on May 16, 2015, 10:34:41 PM
I think that's what I don't like about the song: the stuttering.
It's catchy but predictable.
I actually didn't expect Ellie Goulding singing something bubble-gummy like that. It made it kinda weird, but intriguing. It's one of the things that a pop song should have IMO. :P
I see the "let you set the pace" part as a pre-chorus, which was skipped after the first verse in order to get to the chorus earlier. It makes sense since the beginning takes longer than usual (20 seconds), and the song already lasts 4 minutes.
Another thing that I really like of this song is how the verse's melody shifts unexpectedly. After "You're the only thing I wanna touch", I would expect Ellie to sing "lower" (I dunno how to explain it), but she instead uses higher chords. Please someone knows music theory and can explain it better? haha
It's quite different for the kind of songs that Max writes.
In what way is it different? It's crowded with "Max hit elements".
Song builds in intensity throughout, Stripped down first chorus, big culmination chorus in the end, big vocal arrangements with large ad-lib focus, something "new" happens in the second verse (the "prechorus" section), stuttering in the chorus, simple chorus melody with that perfect amount of "annoying" quality that makes it catchy without being "silly" etc, syllable uniformity. List goes on. Textbook Max-hit.
Quote from: AlexanderLaBrea on May 17, 2015, 11:49:20 PM
In what way is it different? It's crowded with "Max hit elements".
Song builds in intensity throughout, Stripped down first chorus, big culmination chorus in the end, big vocal arrangements with large ad-lib focus, something "new" happens in the second verse (the "prechorus" section), stuttering in the chorus, simple chorus melody with that perfect amount of "annoying" quality that makes it catchy without being "silly" etc, syllable uniformity. List goes on. Textbook Max-hit.
I think it's the song structure that makes it sound different. At least different from other songs Max has been credited on in recent memory. Although there are a few familiar elements we've heard from Max, I wouldn't really call it a "textbook Max-hit" just because he's credited.
If you chose not to see the "I let you set the pace..." part as a pre-chorus but instead a second verse variation, the song structure is not really that different at all. What makes it stand out a bit perhaps is Ali P's production, which was the starting point for the song. If you're only looking at the song writing and the melodic structure etc, it's pretty typical Max, the melodic math (as discussed in another current thread) and so forth. There are these subtle yet very effective things that you'll hear throughout his "hit song catalog".
Quote from: AlexanderLaBrea on May 18, 2015, 10:16:57 AM
If you chose not to see the "I let you set the pace..." part as a pre-chorus but instead a second verse variation, the song structure is not really that different at all. What makes it stand out a bit perhaps is Ali P's production, which was the starting point for the song. If you're only looking at the song writing and the melodic structure etc, it's pretty typical Max, the melodic math (as discussed in another current thread) and so forth. There are these subtle yet very effective things that you'll hear throughout his "hit song catalog".
Oh, now I get what you're saying. I agree with that statement; the production is what makes the difference stand out (lower octave chorus/explosive 2nd chorus). It's one of those songs in which the production really overlaps with the song structure.
In terms of melodic intervals and such, I see some bits of Max, but not as much as the chord structure, mainly in the chorus which is pretty reminiscent of the cheiron days due to the chord change and sustained chord. I don't know, it doesn't feel like a classic Max Martin song overall to me. Only in bits and pieces.
Great analysis guys, some really good stuff in this thread. Now time for a new one...
The second song we will analyse is "Scream" by Usher. (22 May)
Alrighty :D
The first thing that is catchy/remarkable are the dotted 8th notes in the main synth line which are contrary to the vocal rhythm in the verses and chorus. Here they're using only straight 4th or 8th notes.
Also this song sounds quite similar to their prior collaboration DJ Got Us Fallin' In Love, it even has the same key.
What I love personally the most about Scream is the explosion (including the build up) before the last chorus, also Usher's ad-libs during this chorus.
About the sound and production, I love the soft distortion everywhere.
And after I read the second part of the Max Martin/Shellback interview in swedish radio, I remember the part when Max said that Shellback liked to add weird stuff to the melodies and thought about the "uh-ooh baby baby" part in the chorus.
I also remember about the contrast of lots-of-words in the verses and long notes in the chorus.
Great thread. Never had time to comment on "love me like you do" - There's like 4-5 writers on that song I believe? So it's hard to know which parts Max actually contributed 100%. Someone had written here before
that "i'll let you set the pace" sounded more like Ilya.
Anyway what I find fascinating is how Max has assembled these "dream teams of disciples" who probably
at this point can write a more "Max song" than he ever did without him!! Lol
Luke too, "Broken hearted" by Karmin first sounded like Luke - but it turned out to be Cirkut and Claude Kelly - 2 of his students.
Some people say that this is mass producing art and criticize Max and Luke big time for this - saying it shows
their method is "soul less" and "mathematical" -
But one can also say that they understand music so well, that they can teach people something that was once
thought to be "either you have it or you don't" - Sorta like a great Physics teacher who understands it so intuitively that they take the mystery out of it, and can make people understand Relativity.
There are only so many Hendrixes , Van Halens, Beach Boys, Beatles, Rush etc that reinvent the wheel. But Max proves how one doesn't have to for it to be great music.