Song title: Salamander
https://soundcloud.com/spectrumid/salamander
https://soundcloud.com/spectrumid/salamander-louder-bass
Check out the other versions too with alternative bass-lines.
Comments are welcome. 8)
love the 15 seconds of silence at the beginning, do you think this might become a new trend? :D
funny thing is: when the beat comes in, it reminds me of the beginning of Michael Jackson's Thriller (which has also 15 seconds of musical silence at the beginning haha)
some parts of your instrumental are off beat, e.g. strings at 1:00
you're obviously creative but your instrumental lacks structure and a good mix
Quote from: B Steady on April 01, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
love the 15 seconds of silence at the beginning, do you think this might become a new trend? :D
Now would that be something (yes please) but why not? the whole "loudness wars" have only one medicine , it could
be something like
silence is golden eg.
Quote from: B Steady on April 01, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
funny thing is: when the beat comes in, it reminds me of the beginning of Michael Jackson's Thriller (which has also 15 seconds of musical silence at the beginning haha)
Funny indeed, Anything from the thriller - era would be welcome,(like 110 million physical record sales) this production clearly is on bar in relative terms hoho 8)
Quote from: B Steady on April 01, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
some parts of your instrumental are off beat, e.g. strings at 1:00
there has to be something where to grab on vs complete silence .
Quote from: B Steady on April 01, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
you're obviously creative but your instrumental lacks structure and a good mix
Simply not true - this is a good mix - though a headphone mix.
Quote from: B Steady on April 01, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
lacks structure
The structure is one of the strongest points of the song, so depending what you mean of course..
You should be glad people listen to your stuff and give their opinion! Being told your music sucks is actually a good thing.
If the mix is good why post two versions? ;)
Quote from: Adam B on April 02, 2015, 12:50:56 PM
You should be glad people listen to your stuff and give their opinion! Being told your music sucks is actually a good thing.
haha yeah, I better take everything back I said. didn't know I was so wrong!!!
You better start using a grid in your DAW.
The music you posted sounds more like a soundtrack to a movie or a game, not a song at all. Maybe this is a direction for you to go?
Quote from: Dr. Fleischman on April 02, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
You better start using a grid in your DAW.
The music you posted sounds more like a soundtrack to a movie or a game, not a song at all. Maybe this is a direction for you to go?
pleeease, this is a perfect pop song and everything is on the grid!
Any critique is good critique cuz it gives you the chance to reflect on how people get your productions, what to work on etc
I would think a forum with pop nerds is one of the best places to get opinions that really matter if you want to make music for the GP.
Thanks for listening and commenting.
Quote from: Dr. Fleischman on April 02, 2015, 10:40:25 PMQuote from: Dr. Fleischman on April 02, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
Maybe this is a direction for you to go.
the ability to do all kinds of sound is a +
Quote from: Dr. Fleischman on April 02, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
The music you posted sounds more like a soundtrack to a movie or a game,
Appreciating this..
Quote from: Dr. Fleischman on April 02, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
not a song at all
..because on the contrary that kind of observation underlines exactly how this song works alone without vocals.
the impression of a soundtrack magnifies that , there are even multiple melodies to grab on ready for the singer to carry on.
if you imagine Abba's SOS or Jacksons "They dont" care about us or "Jam" without vocals. you'll see how much (seemingly: as our brains absorbs fairly simplified melodies yet smashed but complex sound) certain minimalism on the mix (in the arrangement too) and the dynamics can play in a role of an strong structure forming a "perfect" pop song .
in reverse : If you listen - Britneys spears song "work" . without vocals, you are completely loss.
Has been a trend for a while.
I had couple pre-written vocal parts for this song ready even before the decision to switch some horns / brass
parts to accommodate leads on an form of a piano and strong bass.
I have to conclude that this is indeed very much a song in a modern pop sense.
Quote from: Adam B on April 02, 2015, 12:50:56 PM
You should be glad people listen to your stuff and give their opinion!
Very glad about it - your attention too, what makes you think otherwise?
Quote from: Adam B on April 02, 2015, 12:50:56 PM
Being told your music sucks is actually a good thing.
Your'e welcome to express that view too.
But..that s bit tricky one since if you for example say that all 2-unlimited music sucks, then one would only have to conclude that it is only a matter of taste..as it mostly is.
But if you say that
all Dr.Lukes music is over produced , or 2 unlimited song "tribal dance" have a bad mix, then you would probably face totally opposite facts. or another example would be - if you say that quantization - daw automation - sample based pitch tuning or loops are a bad habit taken out from the session musicians pocket...then same thing will happen - simply not true.
On a same fashion - this song doesn't lack a good mix - or structure. it's peak levels are about ready to go for a master despite of its massive dynamic content.
Quote from: Adam B on April 02, 2015, 12:50:56 PM
If the mix is good why post two versions? ;)
To get opinions etc , of course. as this is a demo forum - right?
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 02:41:30 AM
Any critique is good critique cuz it gives you the chance to reflect on how people get your productions, what to work on etc
I would think a forum with pop nerds is one of the best places to get opinions that really matter if you want to make music for the GP.
Precisely.
Quote from: B Steady on April 02, 2015, 11:02:35 PM
pleeease, this is a perfect pop song and everything is on the grid!
To stay on the grid - huh?
Obviously some idea of how major labels works on a big money production rounds with multiple sessions (with multiple studio facilities)
with countless demos - beta and alpha versions (and still not possibly getting it right before mastering house)...gives you the possibility to actually release something which is a bit raw and unpolished. you dig?
and im not sure how much sense is to release something completely free (before gold) specially on demo forums. to keep it fun. 8)
The idea is the opposite.
Quote from: NeutronSynergy on April 03, 2015, 03:13:14 AM
To stay on the grid - huh?
Obviously some idea of how major labels works on a big money production rounds with multiple sessions (with multiple studio facilities)
with countless demos - beta and alpha versions (and still not possibly getting it right before mastering house)...gives you the possibility to actually release something which is a bit raw and unpolished. you dig?
and im not sure how much sense is to release something completely free (before gold) specially on demo forums. to keep it fun. 8)
The idea is the opposite.
What you have to understand is that the guys that make a living on music sits on their laptops with the same plugs as you and pumps out great sounding tracks. You don't.
Quote from: NeutronSynergy on April 03, 2015, 02:50:28 AM
Very glad about it - your attention too, what makes you think otherwise?
Your'e welcome to express that view too.
But..that s bit tricky one since if you for example say that all 2-unlimited music sucks, then one would only have to conclude that it is only a matter of taste..as it mostly is.
But if you say that all Dr.Lukes music is over produced , or 2 unlimited song "tribal dance" have a bad mix, then you would probably face totally opposite facts. or another example would be - if you say that quantization - daw automation - sample based pitch tuning or loops are a bad habit taken out from the session musicians pocket...then same thing will happen - simply not true.
On a same fashion - this song doesn't lack a good mix - or structure. it's peak levels are about ready to go for a master despite of its massive dynamic content.
To get opinions etc , of course. as this is a demo forum - right?
This is not a demo forum, this is a Max Martin forum.
Personally I dont want to see this forum turn into yet another forum with people posting their tracks (and noone listening). Maybe this posting of self made music should be adressed somehow..?
I tried to avoid commenting on your track but since you brought it up and somehow think its radio ready. It's not. It completely lacks depth, every sound hits you right in the face, there's no compression, no sensible use of reverb and the mix is way off.. And that's just the technical sides of it. I'll stay away from the musical sides for now..
Leaving your track my point was that I thought you were very condescending to someone who just had taken the time to listen to your music. That's just all i wanted to say really.
Here's another crap song I heard on some other forum https://soundcloud.com/jcoke-1/echos-from-the-past
Is your crap song better or worse than this crap? Why?
Face it there's millions of crap songs like this on soundcloud. If that's what you wanna make fine by me, but if you want to make music that people actually want to listen to (and maybe pay for listening to) you have a lot to learn..
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
What you have to understand is that the guys that make a living on music sits on their laptops with the same plugs as you and pumps out great sounding tracks. You don't.
Now that you mentioned. this is not just a good mix - this is a pretty good song too , I wouldn't post if otherwise 8)
I thank for your opinion and time - however based on those claims you clearly don't have a realistic view about what is actually put on every song (99%) you hear on a radio and it's just waaaaaaay more than a guy with a laptop. plugins just isn't enough and then of course
you need an actual team of musicians and professionals to make the magic happen - sitting
in front of an laptop is mostly just an small part of all of the efforts what it takes for most of the material that we hear on the radio to be finished.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
This is not a demo forum, this is a Max Martin forum.
"Talk about all the technical stuff concerning music production, instruments and (your) studio equipment here! Feel free to post your demos and find collaborations."
Says the title. they who actually are interested about the "cheiron effect" , knows that the only way to achieve it is to do it and share it.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Personally I don't want to see this forum turn into yet another forum with people posting their tracks (and noone listening). Maybe this posting of self made music should be adressed somehow..?
Obviously..you are in the wrong place then and the forum code of conduct applies to you as well.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
I tried to avoid commenting on your track but since you brought it up and ..
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
somehow think its radio ready.
Did I said that ? No - among other few technical details - first it would have to be mastered and even before that it should be properly finished.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
It's not. It completely lacks depth, every sound hits you right in the face, there's no compression, no sensible use of reverb and the mix is way off.. And that's just the technical sides of it.
Not dismissing your taste of music here but - Your lack of knowledge is obvious (either that or you have some personal problem)- since all the arguments you say are simply not true regarding about the use of reverb, compression and about the mix. (and there is plenty of depth) it can be easily identified just by listening the song.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
I'll stay away from the musical sides for now..
But that's probably because that's all the musical / technical side you got . It's obvious - since all the arguments
you say are simply not true regarding about the use of reverb, compression and about the mix. this can be easily identified just by listening the song.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Leaving your track my point was that I thought you were very condescending to someone who just had taken the time to listen to your music. That's just all i wanted to say really.
Your point is - clearly missing however , there is nothing here (by me) giving an opposite indication, this is just normal conversation about the song - exactly as proposed by yourself .
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Here's another crap song I heard on some other forum https://soundcloud.com/jcoke-1/echos-from-the-past
I leave the comparison for you. I respect all of the makers in the maze - big and small , there is room for everyone.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Is your crap song better or worse than this crap? Why?
Strange, I had a sense that it probably isn't the best idea to comment your postings..
so there isn't much reason to add anything here. keep it going partner;)
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Face it there's millions of crap songs like this on soundcloud. If that's what you wanna make fine by me, but if you want to make music that people actually want to listen to (and maybe pay for listening to) you have a lot to learn..
Why to waste a bullet ? Well - now im naturally writing this on a sense that others might be reading this and that there are intelligent as well professional people among the users of this forum , so this conversation just might turn into something fruitful so to keep that in mind:
The only attitude to do any material is just to do it - and despite all of the myths circulating about for example getting signed ,(among artist or amateur producers or anyone trying to get into the biz) the hard
reality mostly is that too polished demos gets you nowhere - producers are looking for ideas behind someone they can push forward as they have the money and the capacity to actually pump that radio hit - there might be very few very rare exeptions (like crazy frog) but that's just
what the label wants to fill in their catalog - and on the other hand . among that mentioned specific group - pushing a high profile indie records is probably against most of their own goals. that's just the way things works.
Secondly - by underestimating others..you get nowhere. this is also something you have to learn.
Now what you have to admit to yourself is that -
Obviously you are a person who are unable or are unwilling to take ordinary conversation - not to mention even half hard criticism or opposite arguments towards your own opinions - while you still clearly insist others to take (without a grain of salt) how their hard work or material sucks - and why that is a good thing , now as you bravely face this - read this topic again and again, and then ask from yourself- why it is a good thing that you would understand that everything you do or claim here really sucks ? 8)
And now that you mentioned about it - name me just even one example of someone "earning by sitting in front of their laptops just with the plugs"
But before you do that I advice you to take a look at this credit list (Destiny's child) and think again how much it actually
takes for such an silly thing as a 3 minute radio friendly pop song to be fully materialized.
So on with the learning process you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny%27s_Child_%28album%29
Other than that - all comments are appreciated about my stuff
Time passes..and no examples given?
To give some perspective, well - here's one..
He is one of the best if not the best in the world on what he does (also the author of K.A.R.M.A synthesizer mod) . this is a fine example of what a person can do , if described as "sitting in front of laptop just with the plugs" - though he is sitting in front of a keyboard.
Check out these two songs and you will be amazed when you realize that they are completely done with Korg-Trinity series synthesizer. no extra processing at all - all inside the hardware of an Korg Trinity (and with it's ACCESS engine) - released on 1995 !?
and it still kicks in.
these ran as demos on the trinity hardware:
Song title -"Ready for radio " https://www.karma-lab.com/Audio/sk/pd/ReadyForRadio.mp3
Song title - "Sorcerer- " " https://www.karma-lab.com/Audio/sk/pd/TheSorcerer.mp3
+
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
you were very condescending
Not true . just answered with humor into humor to someone who seemed friendly .
Heres the link : http://www.queendom.com/queendom_tests/transfer
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
Face it there's millions of crap songs like this on soundcloud. If that's what you wanna make fine by me,
1. Martin, Denniz PoP,Shellback, , Kristian Lundin, Dr Luke, Rami Yacoub, Jörgen Elofsson, Andreas Carlsson, Per Magnusson, David Kreuger, Herbie Crichlow, - in the beginning they were all just like any of those millions of songs in the soundcloud .
2. Music today that is listened by wider audience is music that is promoted by pr-offices and other instances
which are separated and musicians/artist (until they become filthy rich) have less to do with music PR (including famed symbiosis of sound technicians/mixer/songwriter/DJ/ producer cases)
and in 'factory production culture' (the music which this forum is based on)
the last person to do it is the maker/the mixer,the engineer/ the composer, or even high profile producers (there are exceptions of course)
bands like (products) Queen or Zeppelin,Beatles (and even Abba which was the next step) who had their separate
managers but still with strong influence into everything what was going around (band members become the share- holders etc) - are mostly gone.(Muse is closer to back street boys in this sense) excluding few 80's and early 90's giants ,
Whose best world wide record sales are gone -
there are some factories where things are done like in the best days of the Muscle shoals rhythm section where the mixer/engineer (-one person-) Rick Hall was the boss of all things/ or the Barry Beckett - Roger Hawkins, Jimmy Johnson and David Hood "the four"
ran everything together as a single unit , which made things like Lynyrd Skynyrd or Dire straits even possible.
and naturally Jimi Hendrix and similar examples aren't risen as there is no
phenomena like hippie culture to feed them
as stars into ultimate fame and success based clearly (Even in 'marketing sense') on the musical abilities by the musician rather than anything else. Prince is probably the best living example on a star fashion of an sort of fusion of all things in production sense - where just one persons musical / talent and other abilities hugely counts into the end product - and have a merit while still staying inside the boarders of pop-production frame, as we clearly aren't speaking about classical or jazz music here.
Now this is where the line begins to fade : between those
magical instances where
just music on a pop format have heavy influence into popularity and success of the overall 'product' instead purely systematic PR - which is an absolute ice breaker in the present music business.
Not saying that a talented band (or even individual artist-musician. though very rare) with strong production efforts and vision couldn't arise(as self promoted by the content makers them self) to top the charts IF they have the finance to do it - this fashion is more or less alive for example in heavy rock music.
But as we all know - still multiple separate team-facilities with different songwriters and countless professionals behind the curtains pushing the buttons to get Jackson or Elvis.R-Williams.W Houston, Spice girls -like hits (individual imago artist or group ) clearly dominates the charts and the production culture -
Even more dedicated sophisticated studio-oriented production (with investments accounts and superior tech ) establishments like the former sound city studios(where all things are combined into one base) have gotten rare. the
Ocean way studios at U.S is one of those examples who are strong enough (as a studio) to who have "the ball" (if necessary) totally by them self .
Sweden has couple of those kind of instances well and alive. The Cheiron studios/productions were eventually a fusion of all things mentioned - resulting into their impressive rooster including (in and outside house) artist and recordings like : Bon Jovi,Bryan Adams, Boyzone, Britney Spears,Dr. Alban , Celine Dion, Dr. Alban . etc.
and the legacy of those golden days into Swedish production culture (including all kinds of fusion to the biggest ones like BMG)
are probably pretty much close to the previously mentioned link about - Destinys child + the growing number
of "star producers" (Whatever it might include) like Rubin, Martin, Rock,Dre, T-land, Albini, -
..while that album naturally is holding Jackson 5 or ABBA more or a less as an school book example how to manufacture a product to top the charts.
3. People listen music which is promoted. simply as that. even (subjectively speaking) bad music.
4. Soundcloud is a great gateway for anyone to push their stuff out.
- there is 80 million dollars (if I remember correct) alone US- tax money payers money (plus other similar private instance figures)
to build soundcloud.com into a huge service - they are really believing on what they are doing.
5. Most stuff you hear on the radio - (world wide top-ten products that shapes and defines most of the listeners idea about recording sound and production styles) typically have a budget ranging anywhere from 300-000 to 1.000 000 million. (for starters) Including Music videos. promoting an album, printing of physical copies, digital distribution, splitting the revenue with different parties, touring in support of the release. etc.
While the actual recording - budget can be as low like 5-20 000 euros,dollars,biscuits. still money though.
6. and the equipment (including physical recording properties, the acoustics ,) typically cost easily around 300 000 -1.5 000 000 for major stuff - and that can be seen as an modest number.
Song title: Salamander.
https://soundcloud.com/spectrumid/salamander
Feel free to comment , thanks.
I'm actually really interested in the price of a song.
You can get a beat from an unknown producer for US$500.
Quote from: j.fco.morales on April 04, 2015, 07:08:29 PM
I'm actually really interested in the price of a song.
You can get a beat from an unknown producer for US$500.
Same here , you can get pretty much all the elements of the song below US$500 just by taking a trip into www.bigfishaudio.com
-
Could it be said that a complex song from that same unknown producer (with a lot of automation) bass,drums,keyboards,sample strings / brass and other score-instrument with some extra composition and arrangement + vocal melody lines. could be around US$ 2000-4000 -->per song? Wouldn't a whole album (just beats) then cost 10x500$ ?
Exactly.
In 2006, after the Timbaland-produced track for Nelly Furtado were big, I read he asked US$100.000 per song.
Quote from: j.fco.morales on April 05, 2015, 04:37:44 AM
Exactly.
In 2006, after the T-land still produced track for Nelly Furtado were big, I read he asked US$100.000 per song.
Did he get it?
There is always a core audience and core users in music business - and closer to the core you are , the higher the level -
bigger the game , and more money and more profession is involved - if not then there is no point at all to do anything else than wait for the robots to take over.
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=18273 - this place is intend to handle the million dollar budget stuff as well (it has 6 studios)
While roxyrecordings - mainly concentrate on small and medium level swedish-artist. (Perhaps the ARK-excluded)
http://www.roxyrecordings.se/kontakt.php
Jacksons Xscape didn't sold amazingly well - but Timbaland still probably got a fine number for it.
Outside the core-business of star culture in more regular rates in micro and nano level budgets..
..You may find a full 30 second advert song for about 500US$ - but that's just ridiculous.
real rates are closer to 2-3000$ a shot for anyone talented composer. (source https://www.bectu.org.uk/advice-resources/rates/sound-rates )
That example would work for typical Roxy-recordings artist, for starter. (though the overall numbers are bigger)
If we use your example 500$ for a beat per song and my estimation of 2-4000 (Which is quite low but possible) of the rest,
an 10 track album would cost about 35 000$ the basic content alone - no printing, pr .hired musicians etc.
then it would make almost more sense to record actual drums . and do the rest with ITB-or even hire someone
good like a DJ with fresh view to accomplish the job.
That's serious money for the common men , while far away from something like B.Spears budget for a video "work".
..well see was it worth it.
Wouldn't find too hard to imagine that anyone who goes for example into Abbeys (as a session musician) into serious larger-scale
(like piano parts for Muse including live gigs , Spike Edney -style) projects starts their taxing from 10k (excluding the money generated from the record sales of course) just for warming up the bass amplifier or wiping the dust out from the mixing console.
Nirvana's album
Bleach was said to be done under US 5000$. (US $15,400.00 today). probably only because they had all the stuff ready. Even that calculation would catapult the calculation of such production if done today into 35 000 $ easily.
Apple acquired Beats audio for $3 billion - quite an money for someone who is processing beats and writes rap-lyrics.
So the closer to the core you get...
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
This is not a demo forum, this is a Max Martin forum.
Forum? This is a
Cheiron forum.
Quote from: Adam B on April 03, 2015, 03:53:21 AM
pumps out great sounding tracks. You don't.
I can pump out as great sounding tracks as anyone , laptop or not, proper production environment or a tuba. ;)