Since U Been Gone - Breakdown between Luke and Max

[RoyFan]

I know Max and Luke work closely together when writing.  But I still wonder if anyone here at the site has read a specific interview with 1 of them (or an article about them/the song)
which went into depth about which parts melodically they each contributed to it.

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment! :-)

[sweetmelody]

This would be great to know for sure.

I will take a stab at it based on various things I've read and heard. Luke is more of a track/sound guy. He contributes to melodies sometimes, and he's even come up with some himself, but mostly he is there as a filter for the other writers. Max has traditionally (after the Cherion days, that is) been more of the melody guy. He contributes to production, but usually it's Dr. Luke who is the main guy. Neither of them are big lyric writers, preferring instead to rely on people like Savan and Bonnie. With that said, Since U Been Gone was one of their early collabs and I would venture to say that they probably wrote it together equally. I think the guitar work/chords are very early Dr. Luke. The rock aspect of the writing seems to lean more towards Max. My guess is Max probably came up with most of the main melodies and influenced the rock production and Luke contributed mostly the track, chords and lyrics. That's just my guess.

[j.fco.morales]

Absolutely agree.

Luke said many times that he always worked with people to write lyrics over his stuff but he was never satisfied with the results, being the challenge to write on his own. But he found amazing people to work with and take his skills to another level: first Max Martin -who wasn't so popular after 2000-2001-, then Avril Lavigne and Cathy Dennis -they wrote About You Now, love this one!- and then started all this publishing stuff that's been growing and growing.

And many of you will hate me for this, but Max Martin production skills are not impressive at all, his main talent is toplining. He's one of the best in the game.

[nznexus]

And many of you will hate me for this, but Max Martin production skills are not impressive at all, his main talent is toplining. He's one of the best in the game.

How can you say that? Have you ever studied max martin songs?

[RoyFan]

Wow - thanks all you guys for the interesting thoughts around the question -  Is there a specific place I can read the interview where Luke mentioned about his early attempts to get other people to write over his stuff?

[RoyFan]

About Max's production skills -  He DEFINITELY can produce good stuff WITH SHELLBACK - "Raise Your Glass" - "So What" - , "I Knew You Were Trouble"
As songs - probably not as good as Since U Been Gone, but very slick production -

He even produced "Please Don't Leave Me" (Pink) on his own - a good sounding song

I believe he played Keyboards on most of the above - So he's not just telling Shellback what to do, but he's actually contributing to the sound of the song

He probably can't produce ON HIS OWN, as well as Luke - Luke is a drummer, bassist, guitarist - and that's the main reason why he can do a "Party In The USA" type track
on his own instrumentally -  But if anyone here has been through a production session for 1 of their own songs - I'm sure that Max had some effect on the production of
SUBG - because he's too proud to list himself as co-producer if he didn't

I think on that track he may of suggested ideas to Luke , like the great harmony vocal in the second verse, some of the synth riffs - and that DOES merit a co production credit, because even if Luke executed them musically, he wouldn't have thought of it without Max there

Thoughts?

[j.fco.morales]

I think he can, but he needs some assistance to develop a better work.
He's very smart.

[mxmcarl]

About Max's production skills -  He DEFINITELY can produce good stuff WITH SHELLBACK - "Raise Your Glass" - "So What" - , "I Knew You Were Trouble"
As songs - probably not as good as Since U Been Gone, but very slick production -

He even produced "Please Don't Leave Me" (Pink) on his own - a good sounding song

I believe he played Keyboards on most of the above - So he's not just telling Shellback what to do, but he's actually contributing to the sound of the song

He probably can't produce ON HIS OWN, as well as Luke - Luke is a drummer, bassist, guitarist - and that's the main reason why he can do a "Party In The USA" type track
on his own instrumentally -  But if anyone here has been through a production session for 1 of their own songs - I'm sure that Max had some effect on the production of
SUBG - because he's too proud to list himself as co-producer if he didn't

I think on that track he may of suggested ideas to Luke , like the great harmony vocal in the second verse, some of the synth riffs - and that DOES merit a co production credit, because even if Luke executed them musically, he wouldn't have thought of it without Max there

Thoughts?

I'm sorry to tell you but, you're way way wrong!

Max Martin is the one who taught Shellback, Dr Luke, Savan, Rami... The list goes on.

Also, he's a multi-instrumentalist, he can probably play almost every instrument there is, and if there's one he can't play he can write the score for the person playing it seeing as he's classically trained.

When it comes to productions, Max Martin is the nr 1 guy, no doubt about it. He's a perfectionist and therefore he's involved in every single note and every single piece of the production.

[RoyFan]

I'm sorry to tell you but, you're way way wrong!

Max Martin is the one who taught Shellback, Dr Luke, Savan, Rami... The list goes on.

Also, he's a multi-instrumentalist, he can probably play almost every instrument there is, and if there's one he can't play he can write the score for the person playing it seeing as he's classically trained.

When it comes to productions, Max Martin is the nr 1 guy, no doubt about it. He's a perfectionist and therefore he's involved in every single note and every single piece of the production.

I'm glad to be wrong :-)  Since I root for Max, he seems like a much nicer guy than Luke.  Something emanates from Dr Luke that is kinda shrill, insensitive.  And my intuition about him was only confirmed by the terrible comments he made to Kesha. 

I guess I'm obsessing too much about Party In The USA, I tend to do that sometimes with songs that I like.  Don't get me wrong, it's not Beethoven, and it's not even as good as a "Take On Me" from the 80s as far as musicianship.  But the first time I heard it I guess I was experiencing something great cause it seems to have sucked me in.

So to conclude, I probably give that song too much credit, and I didn't know Max was a drummer.  Now that I think about it, "Trouble" (Taylor Swift. produced by Max/Shell) is every bit as infectious of a Dance Vibe , as "USA" is.  So hey, alright go Max. 

[sweetmelody]

I'm sorry to tell you but, you're way way wrong!

Max Martin is the one who taught Shellback, Dr Luke, Savan, Rami... The list goes on.

Also, he's a multi-instrumentalist, he can probably play almost every instrument there is, and if there's one he can't play he can write the score for the person playing it seeing as he's classically trained.

When it comes to productions, Max Martin is the nr 1 guy, no doubt about it. He's a perfectionist and therefore he's involved in every single note and every single piece of the production.

Well said. Max is the yoda of the songwriting/production world.

[nznexus]

im sometimes question myself how old u guys really are in this forum.

such a ridicolous statements about max martin and yet this is sa cheiron fan forum but nobody knows anything about max martin in reality

[Jules]

im sometimes question myself how old u guys really are in this forum.

You can find the answer to that question in this thread:

"How old are you?"

[j.fco.morales]

That would be an amazing question for the interview: does he share his knowledge about pop songwriting and production with his collaborators, like a mentor?

I read your posts and seems a little bit too much like a fan.

[georg_e]

.................... but Max Martin production skills are not impressive at all...........

                  LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!