Reason behind Max great melodies

[backgammonfiend]

edit: i take it back, max martin is just as essential to making a top tier song as his collaborators, it's just that his collaborators do way better in their solo work than max does.

it's like luke, rami, and the like come out with really good songs and max provides the extra boost to greatest of all time level

[AlexanderLaBrea]

Problem with your statement is that still the vocal track is very much the most important part of a song, and seeing as Max is still pretty much untouched as the best topliner (melodies, not lyrics) in the world. I'd say he's the least expendable writer in the world. He didn't "ride" off anyone. He took the tools learnt by Denniz and pushed it a couple of 100 times further. All writers except denniz that you mentiion has been thought by Max.

[backgammonfiend]

hmmmmmm
if what you say is true... then why can a song with a great instrumental and a garbage vocal track seem amazing (see... Baby One More Time, Oops I Did It Again, I'm Not A Girl, Tik Tok, Circus, Teenage Dream <--- all top selling songs written by Max but mostly produced by Rami or Luke) but a song with a great vocal track and sub par instrumental almost always seems terrible (I can't even come up with an example because nobody in pop music would EVER try that shit) Obviously you'd like a good vocal track and a good instrumental but there's almost none of that in pop music, because in pop A VOCAL TRACK IS (MOST OF THE TIME) WORTHLESS <Autotune FTW>. Anomalies like Adele, Taylor Swift, Usher will inevitably sell more than typical popstars if they catch on, it's just that most of them don't.

If what you say is true... then for those six songs why is it much more enjoyable to listen to them with the vocal track gone? Even good vocalists like Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson and Pink... their Luke/Max songs are still so much better with no vocals. How do you explain that?

edit: Ali Payami and Ilya Salmanzadeh are just the newest people Max is leading to success. Still no solo production credits for Max, but Payami did Love Me Harder solo and Ilya did Everyday solo - both great songs written by Max.

[nanofives]

Technically Everyday isn't written by Max. But it's a good observation, I was digging on instrumentals lately and I'm stoke on how many songs can be ruined (or at least... not as good) with a vocal track: I really like Cool for the summer or Love myself, those are very good instrumentals.
It seems like all the Wolf Cousins appeared in the right moment, just when Luke started to fade, it's an interesting move from Max.
Also... It has been 8 years since the last Max solo production... and even that is very questionable, beacuse So What has a lot of Johan touches, I wonder why he wasn't credited in half of the Funhouse track they made together. It's a thin line between Max and others' work. But he's still Max and songs by his co-producers doesn't sound the same somehow.

[onepass]

hmmmmmm
if what you say is true... then why can a song with a great instrumental and a garbage vocal track seem amazing (see... Baby One More Time, Oops I Did It Again, I'm Not A Girl, Tik Tok, Circus, Teenage Dream <--- all top selling songs written by Max but mostly produced by Rami or Luke) but a song with a great vocal track and sub par instrumental almost always seems terrible (I can't even come up with an example because nobody in pop music would EVER try that shit) Obviously you'd like a good vocal track and a good instrumental but there's almost none of that in pop music, because in pop A VOCAL TRACK IS (MOST OF THE TIME) WORTHLESS <Autotune FTW>. Anomalies like Adele, Taylor Swift, Usher will inevitably sell more than typical popstars if they catch on, it's just that most of them don't.

If what you say is true... then for those six songs why is it much more enjoyable to listen to them with the vocal track gone? Even good vocalists like Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson and Pink... their Luke/Max songs are still so much better with no vocals. How do you explain that?

edit: Ali Payami and Ilya Salmanzadeh are just the newest people Max is leading to success. Still no solo production credits for Max, but Payami did Love Me Harder solo and Ilya did Everyday solo - both great songs written by Max.

Max didn't do circus? Did he? Did Max work on Circus and wasn't listed?

[onepass]

Problem with your statement is that still the vocal track is very much the most important part of a song, and seeing as Max is still pretty much untouched as the best topliner (melodies, not lyrics) in the world. I'd say he's the least expendable writer in the world. He didn't "ride" off anyone. He took the tools learnt by Denniz and pushed it a couple of 100 times further. All writers except denniz that you mentiion has been thought by Max.

Agreed. You are right he didn't ride off someone he made his own way in. That's the way it is supposed to be. Max is the best. He doesn't sample or steal from other established songs and he has quality there. The rest are fake and low quality IMO.

[j.fco.morales]

I think Max borrow things from everywhere in a clever way.

And the Wolf Cousins is a win win situation: put producers and songwriters under the wing of a famed and very recognizable musician.

[RoyFan]

Guys - I'm happy I found this thread, I've investigated a lot on this topic the last couple of years, topic being what parts of a lot of hits Max actually contributed to. 

My humble opinion is he's done a lot of great work, but no where near as much as most people think.  He's credited on a TON of Katy Perry stuff where his input was minimal.  The song "teenage dream" I read an interview with Max himself where he said the verse and chorus was Luke's topline.
He's credited on "Domino" and "Kissed a girl" where he again didn't write the topline to the major parts.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure "Break Free" by Ariana is his topline, as is the chorus to "since u been gone"
and "roar" the whole song is mostly his topline ..So he does more than just "ride the tails" of great tracks, he does contribute great things, but not nearly as much as most people think because of all the credits where he's very minimally involved.

That being said, if you listen to instrumental versions of "Break Free" and "Everything I'm Not" (veronicas), you'll see that he does often take little melodies that exist in those tracks, and then takes them to a great level and makes them "human" singable top line melodies out of them if you will.

All great top liners need a great track in that regard, if the chords/track are great, you can often hum the right notes from the triad of the chord and that alone with a great voice will already sound not bad..

As far as being "best top liner in the world", he's up there.  But even Luke, as much as I hate his personality is probably more versatile.

Max has said that also in the same interview where he mentioned "teenage dream' being mostly Luke's topline

Being able to write a track and chorus melody like "Party in the usa" and "domino" and "birthday" and then also doing more girl oriented rock obviously I'd say Luke is more versatile. 

Mathew Komma (Zedd's writer on "Clarity" and others) is definitely a world class topliner.. "Clarity" as a song is probably a couple of levels higher than anything Max/Luke have done.. THAT'S a serious song...

[FrankJScott]

I think you could probably google that

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